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Post by dukeofpain on Jan 18, 2006 14:45:33 GMT -5
Another one to add with Polish roots Is Gerda Daranowski, Hitlers personal Secretary and also in his small clique of personal companions during the war (mostly women). She later married Luftwaffe General Fredreich Christian. Shes the one on the far left with her head turned slightly. I also think that the tall man in the very back who is looking at her is her future husband.
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Post by annienormanna on Jan 18, 2006 16:05:19 GMT -5
Another one to add with Polish roots Is Gerda Daranowski, Hitlers personal Secretary and also in his small clique of personal companions during the war (mostly women). She later married Luftwaffe General Fredreich Christian. Shes the one on the far left with her head turned slightly. I also think that the tall man in the very back who is looking at her is her future husband. Duke? who is Gerda looking at? There is that large officers wife,the officer and two other women looking directly at him. The woman right next to him is looking at him with a certain sly smile. The man I'm talking about seems a bit uncomfortable, having been singled out by these people in some way. Interesting.
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Post by dukeofpain on Jan 18, 2006 17:09:24 GMT -5
Another one to add with Polish roots Is Gerda Daranowski, Hitlers personal Secretary and also in his small clique of personal companions during the war (mostly women). She later married Luftwaffe General Fredreich Christian. Shes the one on the far left with her head turned slightly. I also think that the tall man in the very back who is looking at her is her future husband. Duke? who is Gerda looking at? There is that large officers wife,the officer and two other women looking directly at him. The woman right next to him is looking at him with a certain sly smile. The man I'm talking about seems a bit uncomfortable, having been singled out by these people in some way. Interesting. I think the Person you're talking about is Heinrich Hoffman. I am not sure what exactly is going on. Not many are actually look at the camera! even Hitler has his eyes cocked sideways. This is another photo of the "inner-circle" at Hitlers home the "Berghof" in the alps. Gerda is the one on at the top of the picture on the far left with her head turned, again. Below to her left is Albert Speer.
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Post by OdinofOssetia on Jan 18, 2006 17:26:17 GMT -5
Kaminski - Russian-born of Polish-German parentage; not really Polish. Skorzeny - surname is Slavic indeed, not Hungarian as some falsely claim, but never heard of any Polish ancestry he had. von Zelewski (he changed his surname to von dem Bach, because Zelewski "sounded too Polish" ;D) - of ethnic German nobility from Western Pomerania. Von Zelewski was kashubian noble family. Another Nazi with Kashubian nobility origins is Erich von Manstein (lewinsky). Not true, von Zelewski was from vicinity of Szczecin in Western Pomerania; there were no Kashubs back then in this area. He was an ethnic German noble. It was Lewinski not Lewinsky. Not too sure about him being a Kashub either. I doubt Gerda Daranowski was really Polish too.
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Post by dukeofpain on Jan 18, 2006 17:53:22 GMT -5
Von Zelewski was kashubian noble family. Another Nazi with Kashubian nobility origins is Erich von Manstein (lewinsky). Not true, von Zelewski was from vicinity of Szczecin in Western Pomerania; there were no Kashubs back then in this area. He was an ethnic German noble. It was Lewinski not Lewinsky. Not too sure about him being a Kashub either. I doubt Gerda Daranowski was really Polish too. Of course she isn't. That wouldn't jive very well with your take on history.
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Post by annienormanna on Jan 18, 2006 20:15:04 GMT -5
I think the Person you're talking about is Heinrich Hoffman. I am not sure what exactly is going on. Not many are actually look at the camera! even Hitler has his eyes cocked sideways. Aha! I would imagine the amusement could be that he's in the photo instead of taking it.
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Post by Polako on Jan 19, 2006 20:15:49 GMT -5
Not true, von Zelewski was from vicinity of Szczecin in Western Pomerania; there were no Kashubs back then in this area. He was an ethnic German noble. It was Lewinski not Lewinsky. Not too sure about him being a Kashub either. I doubt Gerda Daranowski was really Polish too. Of course she isn't. That wouldn't jive very well with your take on history. She probably had some Polish ancestry. But she wasn't Polish. Or maybe you'd like to prove that she was Polish?
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Post by dukeofpain on Jan 19, 2006 22:41:04 GMT -5
Of course she isn't. That wouldn't jive very well with your take on history. She probably had some Polish ancestry. But she wasn't Polish. Or maybe you'd like to prove that she was Polish? I never said she was completely polish. All I said was that she has recent polish roots. She was of mixed German-polish parentage, spoke german and was born in Berlin. de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerda_Christian
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Post by Polako on Jan 19, 2006 22:59:49 GMT -5
She probably had some Polish ancestry. But she wasn't Polish. Or maybe you'd like to prove that she was Polish? I never said she was completely polish. All I said was that she has recent polish roots. She was of mixed German-polish parentage, spoke german and was born in Berlin. de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerda_ChristianSo what does have to do with Polish view of history? The Nazis didn't persecute people of Polish ancestry who were Germanized. That's because they held the idea that many Poles were just Slavinized German Nordics anyway, and taking them back was great for the cause. However, they also held the view that anti-Nazi Poles should be exterminated. In fact, their view was that the anti-Nazi Poles with Nordic blood/looks were the greatest threat to the Reich, because they were also the master race and could match German strength and valour. So basically what you're saying is that it serves us right because we didn't want to be Nazis. So we shouldn't be complaining now, cos if we joined the Nazi cause the Germans would not persecute us. Well what about if someone didin't want to be a Nazi?
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Post by dukeofpain on Jan 20, 2006 0:57:56 GMT -5
I never said she was completely polish. All I said was that she has recent polish roots. She was of mixed German-polish parentage, spoke German and was born in Berlin. de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerda_ChristianSo what does have to do with Polish view of history? The Nazis didn't persecute people of Polish ancestry who were Germanized. That's because they held the idea that many Poles were just Slavinized German Nordics anyway, and taking them back was great for the cause. However, they also held the view that anti-Nazi Poles should be exterminated. In fact, their view was that the anti-Nazi Poles with Nordic blood/looks were the greatest threat to the Reich, because they were also the master race and could match German strength and valour. I was saying it to "odinofossetia", because he picks and chooses whatever best suits his fancy, i.e., saying that she didn't have polish parentage not because she wasn't, but because he doesn't want to believe she was. After all, if he wasn't partial either way, why would he have a post saying that he doubts she was of polish decent? It was specific to him. Because it's obvious he individually has nothing but hate for Germans and wont let the truth get in his way. He just made a thread attacking axishistory as being Nazi's because under there judgment they came to the conclusion that the German records were thought to be less altered by agendas present after the war had ended. Since, there was no Nazis in a position to do so after the war, where as communists were. If his concerns were merited he could've easily sent an e-mail to the operator of the website since it was at the bottom of the page he linked. With the statement saying that he would like to hear from anyone whom could annotate or make him aware of any possible inaccuracies or concerns. So why would he not e-mail him and tell him his concerns about the inaccuracies of the document, rather than post a slanderous attack against axishistory? It's because the actual truth and accuracy of the information is ulterior, his own contempt is primary. This was not directed toward your views, nor other poles. Only him, as an individual. I know much about the "securing" of Poland by the Germans and how truly terrible it was. And also how, in comparison with other Europeans, their bravery and determination was unmatched. However, I still refuse to believe that the Germans hated Poles specifically and abysmally more than all others, and that thus the casualties were relative to this hate. I think that it is true that the casualties were consequential of polish patriotism, bravery, determination, solidarity, which was manifested as subversive groups. Just because this is what I attribute it to, in no way is an effort of mine to legitimize German crimes, for the reason that, as you said, poles didn't bow before the Germans. Like had happened amongst so many others under German occupation. I don't see how you came to the conclusion that this was my belief, since it couldn't be further from the truth. I look at the entire war as one big atrocity that didn't have to happen, and only came into being because of small circles of politicians and elites, whom are the only people that bear any guilt and deserve contempt. Since they didn't have to sit through heavy artillery shelling or machine gun fire and didn't have to die looking into the barrel of a gun. They got to die with fat bellies and in warm beds. The people that were killed because of the decisions of the handful, are fully and completely the victims, no matter who they are. A persons belief that the polish nation had "deserved" all of the terrible things that had happened, is about as repugnant as it comes, and certainly isn't my belief. With all this said, I likewise don't believe that this kind of sentiment be used against German people either, which, sadly it is. Almost universally and with total impunity.
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Post by wendland on Jan 20, 2006 1:39:57 GMT -5
Gerda Daranowski may have been of Upper Silesian descent, where you had a lot of people of Polish origin (at some point in their family history) then becoming Germans at some point. Often, neophytes are the biggest nationalists... Look at people like Hubka or Koschyk (Koszyk) of the Heimatvertibenenbund (Union of Expellees), the names are quite Slavic, at least, but they are vociferously German. So, the Nazis may have had lots of people of various ethnic heritages, but they all felt and were seen as being absolutely German.
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Post by Josh on Jan 20, 2006 2:06:34 GMT -5
<-----Waits for someone to say, "Ted Kaczynski."
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Post by annienormanna on Jan 20, 2006 22:21:59 GMT -5
With all this said, I likewise don't believe that this kind of sentiment be used against German people either, which, sadly it is. Almost universally and with total impunity. And any other peoples involved with the The Reich as well. I think much of it is reflexive, because history isn't a book, it's what we're born into. It's an exploitable condition. And yes, the "ethnic minorities" were quite willing to be a part of a new history. Like anywhere on this planet, people saw what they needed to see.
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