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Post by Educate Me on Nov 1, 2005 20:33:38 GMT -5
Yesterday a guy on tv said that the upcoming dominance of Asia will turn southamerica into an even more irrelevant place (which I like, I heart Isolationism).
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Post by Hairless on Nov 1, 2005 22:50:50 GMT -5
"On the other hand, many of the foreign students from Asia cheat their butts off in Anerican universities and on the tests to get into them. I guess that takes brains." How do you know Asians generally cheat on the SATs or on the ACT? TOEFL and GRE -- it has been written about several times if you search (don't recall the sources, but have been several)
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Hallam
Junior Member
Posts: 94
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Post by Hallam on Nov 1, 2005 23:42:24 GMT -5
"On the other hand, many of the foreign students from Asia cheat their butts off in Anerican universities and on the tests to get into them. I guess that takes brains." How do you know Asians generally cheat on the SATs or on the ACT? TOEFL and GRE -- it has been written about several times if you search (don't recall the sources, but have been several) That was the for GRE. SAT and ACT are national tests. They don't have those tests in Asia.
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Hallam
Junior Member
Posts: 94
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Post by Hallam on Nov 2, 2005 0:08:38 GMT -5
I voted for mediterraneans as they created the two best civilizations that ever existed. Ashkenazi are smart but they are not nearly a race, not even an stable admixture. East Asians are smart too, but they have a low standart deviation. Although i think that all europeans should be clustered together as their average iq is the same. P.s There are a lot of races missing. And i'm not quite sure why you included mongolian, but not native americans that developed much greater civilizations. I'm interested in this standard deviation issue. Can you provide a link? No, he cannot because there exist none that support his racist position. He post what he WISHES were the case due to his inferiority complex. He has never read the Bell Curve and cannot provide a link because he knows there doesn't exist a reliable link. If you are interested in the REAL science, the real studies that have been done on Easst Asian IQs (and there has been few) that concern the level of variance, then I have the info. Here's a study by Linda Gottfredson on the porportion of gifted Asian, Hispanic and white children in their respective population. Gottfredson gave a average IQ for whites at 101.4 with a SD of 14.7 on the WAIS. Asians had an average of 106 with a SD of 15. (go to page 8) www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/2004desegregatingGiftedEducation.pdfAs you can see, it is higher, not lower than the white SD which would explain (combined with the average IQ fig) the overrepresentation of Asians at the 130 IQ level ("gifted") even when average IQ is taken into consideration. I will admit that there probably isn't much hard evidence regarding Asian IQs but the evidence that does exist does not suggest a "lower standart deviation"[sic] as racist like to think (and to make up!). This is just a way for them to compensate for their alleged lower average IQ of their race. Also, look at this study of "super geniuses". Kids with IQs over 164 (on a 16 point SD test). The average IQ was 186. There were 320 people in this study and 20% or 64 people claimed Asian ancestry. This US study was done when Asians made up about 2.5% of the population in America. As anyone who can do some statistical calculations will tell you, you would clearly see that it is nearly impossible (from a probalistic perspective) to have Asians overrepresented at this super high level while having a LOWER SD. Their average IQ would have to be impossibly high in the general population for this to occur. Also, look at the SAT and GRE data I gave before. The data is pretty clear.
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Post by Hairless on Nov 2, 2005 1:15:04 GMT -5
TOEFL and GRE -- it has been written about several times if you search (don't recall the sources, but have been several) That was the for GRE. SAT and ACT are national tests. They don't have those tests in Asia. I never mentioned the SAT or ACT as I am speaking about graduate students. Asian students do take TOEFL of course and often GRE and there have been several scandals involving massive cheating. Perhaps all the brilliant ones stay in their home countries
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Post by nockwasright on Nov 2, 2005 4:58:09 GMT -5
Whites (caucasoids) are obviously inferior to East Asians, intelligence-wise. This is why Asians populate their universities and research institutions. You can argue about 'white inventions' all you want, but the fact is, when whites and Asians compete in the same environment (e.g. in the USA), Asians always win. In this new century, scientific developments are so complex that only master races like Asians will understand them. I imagine is too easy to take on this one, but, nevertheless and only for the fun: as far as IQ is concerned, the East Asian "dominance" seems to me a blatant example of USAcentrism, meaning that what happens in USA (Asian American scores better than Caucasians) is assumed to be the measure of things. According to wordwide IQ measuration index [ftp]http://www.isteve.com/IQ_Table.htm[/ftp], China average is 100, Japan 105, Hong Kong 107, Taiwan 104, Singapore 103. I spare you Nepal (78) to avoid controversy and I don't consider Korea (107) as we have numbers only for half of it and the other half act as if they had negative IQ (50 million people won't change anything however). Anyway factoring the population numbers (China 1.300.000.000 others togheter 140.000.000 with a median of 105 IQ to simplify things), East Asians score 100,4. Looks exactly as much as the Western European nations averaged. So maybe it would be correct to say that among the populations whose existence a reasonably learned being must know, the smartest are the Japanese, not the East Asian, whatever this means. Then, IQ is not the measure of intelligence. The definition of intelligence is quite controversial. Surely an extraterrestrial observing human beings from outside would say that USA, Japan and the better parts of Europe are populated by the most intelligent people, and so on following an obvious path of wealth, power, influence on other populations, literacy and well being. Taiwan, South Korea and Hong Kong, notwithstanding their high QI would never make it on that list.
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Post by Asian God on Nov 2, 2005 9:40:41 GMT -5
www.magnumarchive.com/c/htm/CDocZ_MAG.aspx?Stat=DocZoom_DocZoom&&E=2S5RYDYAWI6H&DT=DOC& Pass=&Total=10&Pic=6&o=UY5 "The Wu family in front of their Flushing house with their three sons, all of whom are first in their class at Harvard." 'Nuff said.
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Post by anodyne on Nov 2, 2005 10:34:43 GMT -5
"Perhaps all the brilliant ones stay in their home countries ."
From what I seen online it's the ones that are in their home countries that cheated. At least they were the ones mentioned. I'm sure many Chinese and Koreans in the states new about those websites.
"The investigation found that the average verbal scores in China, Hong Kong, Taiwan and South Korea had risen significantly. Test officials attribute the rise to the Web sites, which were written in Chinese and Korean.
"We looked at score changes in 40 countries and noticed a significant rise in only these countries," said Carole A. Beere, the chairwoman of the GRE board."
This focuses on the verbal part of the GRE, which would be impossible for someone with a limited amount English to do well. These Asian nations always thump us on mathematics and there was no mention of the Quantitative scores rising significantly.
Perhaps those Asians in the states and Canada that do well academically are a select group. Perhaps the most ambitious and brightest tend to leave their home countries where opportuinities are limited nad that explains for the academic achievements of these groups. I have known someone who teaches English in China and had taught in S. Korea. I asked him if the Asian stereotype fits and he stated that it doesn't. Of course, this is one man and not a study so it's very limited. I would just like to know what you fine individuals think of this particular theory.
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Post by human2 on Nov 2, 2005 10:58:55 GMT -5
I'm interested in this standard deviation issue. Can you provide a link? No, he cannot because there exist none that support his racist position. He post what he WISHES were the case due to his inferiority complex. He has never read the Bell Curve and cannot provide a link because he knows there doesn't exist a reliable link. If you are interested in the REAL science, the real studies that have been done on Easst Asian IQs (and there has been few) that concern the level of variance, then I have the info. Here's a study by Linda Gottfredson on the porportion of gifted Asian, Hispanic and white children in their respective population. Gottfredson gave a average IQ for whites at 101.4 with a SD of 14.7 on the WAIS. Asians had an average of 106 with a SD of 15. (go to page 8) www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/2004desegregatingGiftedEducation.pdfAs you can see, it is higher, not lower than the white SD which would explain (combined with the average IQ fig) the overrepresentation of Asians at the 130 IQ level ("gifted") even when average IQ is taken into consideration. I will admit that there probably isn't much hard evidence regarding Asian IQs but the evidence that does exist does not suggest a "lower standart deviation"[sic] as racist like to think (and to make up!). This is just a way for them to compensate for their alleged lower average IQ of their race. Also, look at this study of "super geniuses". Kids with IQs over 164 (on a 16 point SD test). The average IQ was 186. There were 320 people in this study and 20% or 64 people claimed Asian ancestry. This US study was done when Asians made up about 2.5% of the population in America. As anyone who can do some statistical calculations will tell you, you would clearly see that it is nearly impossible (from a probalistic perspective) to have Asians overrepresented at this super high level while having a LOWER SD. Their average IQ would have to be impossibly high in the general population for this to occur. Also, look at the SAT and GRE data I gave before. The data is pretty clear. Yeah... hehe... I tried looking up for what he claimed too and the sites came out StormFront. ;D I kept that to myself to save him some embarassment but I think that's where he got it from.
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Post by Batrus on Nov 2, 2005 11:09:46 GMT -5
Well i actually read it from a discussion similart to this one. Although, you're right i shouldn't post anything like that unless i have valid sources. My mistake.
p.s I don't see how my opinion is racist. I simply stated the information i was provided (and the only one i found). I've never even stated iq differences were do to genetics. I don't know either were you get that crap about my inferiority complex. If my opinion was a based in non-valid sources. Yours was absolutely baseless.
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Post by Pepe friend of obelix on Nov 2, 2005 11:27:31 GMT -5
The most 'Intelligent Race' is the race where all they wanted was to in peace before the mass genocide and others countries meddling in there affairs ect ect.
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Post by human2 on Nov 2, 2005 12:19:48 GMT -5
Yes, I think you've said enough.
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mmmkay
Full Member
Internet Philosophiser, Leftist Hero
Posts: 127
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Post by mmmkay on Nov 2, 2005 13:43:13 GMT -5
You might be suprised to know that writers in ancient times, referred to black africans as among the most intelligent races and held them in a better light than that of other more northerly european groups. One writer even went completely off-topic in his book to talk about it: -Roman architect Vitruvius, On ArchitectureThat ofcourse contrasts starkly today with today's notions of black africans, but it is interesting to note how opinions have changed so dramatically from earlier times. Todays' "ethiopians" I suppose are the east asians, who are the "farthermost of men" and of "acute intelligence"in reference to the western world. But then again some (blacks) might be so willing to give up the title so easily as we have here : ghanageek.blogspot.com/or here the presumed "father of the internet": inventors.about.com/library/weekly/aa111097.htm
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Post by anodyne on Nov 2, 2005 14:17:05 GMT -5
Your quote says nothing about black africans. It simply differentiates people from the north and the south. Northern Europe from Southern Europe (and perhaps North Africa). If you interpret the quote as you have then you're saying that Vitruvius believed Romans were part "black African". That doesn't seem to hold weight based on that quote alone.
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Post by ndrthl on Nov 2, 2005 14:30:21 GMT -5
ahahahaha So i'm egomaniac. I don't think so. I think i'm just as biased towards my races as anyone who belongs to a race. I actually didn't mean you and didn't think of you. I didn't vote. I think Jews are. Counting out Jews, I'm not even sure. Asians don't do as good on SAT verbal as Whites. The SAT is actually an IQ test somewhat, admitted by the board itself. So you are saying the leading scientists in the States right now have average IQ? Click my link. As for this standard deviation thing, you have to give me something to go on. There are many scientists who happen to have average or just slight above average IQs. Some of the Science Nobel Prize Winners were on the 110 IQ range. Richard Feynman, eg, had an IQ of around 120 or something. Sharon Stone has a higher IQ than a lot of these folks (140/150 range).
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