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Post by k5125 on Jul 5, 2005 18:51:53 GMT -5
When was this name even invented? I don't really like it. I think it would be more appropriate just to refer to a jew by nationality. The label "mizrahi" is far too broad IMO. It could mean anyone from India to Russia to Morocco nowadays.
Isn't it just more practical to identify Jews by nationality and culture? Ashkenazi and Sephardi are fine enough labels, but "mizrahi" is complicated.
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Post by mike2 on Jul 5, 2005 18:58:43 GMT -5
The Jews have way too complicated a history for me to grasp at the present moment. One of these days I'll be bored and I will set aside a day for understanding the Jews.  |
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Post by k5125 on Jul 5, 2005 20:35:26 GMT -5
Well I guess I don't got a problem with the label "Edot HaMizrah", but thats really only supposed to refer to middle eastern communities like Iraq, Syria, and Iran I think.
It just gets wierd when all these other groups get thrown in. Sephardim get labeled mizrahim. And I've even heard South African (black) Jews and Ethiopian Jews being called Mizrahim on websites before.
People have to understand something with these labels too. These labels are not racial they are religious. Thats why if your father is Ashkenazi and your mother is sephardi, you are ashkenazi. And if your father is sephardi and your mother ashkenazi, then you are sephardi. I don't know how it works with mizrahim.
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Post by yigal on Jul 5, 2005 20:35:58 GMT -5
When was this name even invented? I don't really like it. I think it would be more appropriate just to refer to a jew by nationality. The label "mizrahi" is far too broad IMO. It could mean anyone from India to Russia to Morocco nowadays. Isn't it just more practical to identify Jews by nationality and culture? Ashkenazi and Sephardi are fine enough labels, but "mizrahi" is complicated. Mizrahi is fitting douchebage the "russian" mizrahim (bukharaas,Kavkazi/gorskies) are misplaced Persian speakers and Mizrahi indians are Decendants of iraqui jews (hence their name baghdadi jew, and their surnames like sasoon) |
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Post by mike2 on Jul 5, 2005 21:02:05 GMT -5
Mizrahi is fitting douchebage How dare you call someone as likeable as K5125 a "douchebag"?! |
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Post by k5125 on Jul 5, 2005 21:08:09 GMT -5
When was this name even invented? I don't really like it. I think it would be more appropriate just to refer to a jew by nationality. The label "mizrahi" is far too broad IMO. It could mean anyone from India to Russia to Morocco nowadays. Isn't it just more practical to identify Jews by nationality and culture? Ashkenazi and Sephardi are fine enough labels, but "mizrahi" is complicated. Mizrahi is fitting douchebage the "russian" mizrahim (bukharaas,Kavkazi/gorskies) are misplaced Persian speakers and Mizrahi indians are Decendants of iraqui jews (hence their name baghdadi jew, and their surnames like sasoon) Nah, I know that a lot of Indians are baghdadi, I'm talkin about the Cochin Jews etc. And yeah, I know James and all them are true mizrahim in Russia. I'm just saying, its too broad a term, especially when used for African Jewish communites both for Sephardim and Falashim. If anything it was probably invented by some ashkenazi israelis who decided to call the natives "easterners" even though to mizrahim the land is not east at all. Its too much of an orientalist word. Thats all I am saying. |
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Post by k5125 on Jul 5, 2005 21:38:45 GMT -5
Also, granted I don't know more than a handful of middle eastern jews. But i know this one Iraqi at my deli which ironically sits in an almost entirely ashkenazi area. I'm not friends with him, more just like aquaintances But I have asked him in the past if he considered himself mizrahi, and he didn't know what the hell I was talkin about. You see his family is not Israeli, they came many years ago straight from Iraq to America a couple generations ago I think. He just calls himself sephardi. He looks like a typical Jew, maybe slightly more darker skinned than the average american jew. But his face is a jewish face. He doesn't look arab or anything. He has no accent, I've never talked to his parents, so I don't know if they have one. Anyway, he just calls himself Sephardi.
Perhaps there is a chance he is from the Iberian exiles? I'm sure at least some Iraqi Jews descend from there. Surely not a lot, but maybe some.
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Post by yigal on Jul 5, 2005 21:58:48 GMT -5
Mizrahi is fitting douchebage How dare you call someone as likeable as K5125 a "douchebag"?! Defending the ZOG?  |
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Post by Yankel on Jul 6, 2005 1:58:48 GMT -5
douchebag is a term of endearment coming from Yigal.
LMAO! You're probably right.
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Post by shango on Jul 8, 2005 22:35:05 GMT -5
Shabbat Shalom,
The Lemba and Beta Israel are not mizrachi. The Lemba are from Teimani and the Beta Israel are realted to Teimanim. The Sephardi Tahorim are Western Europeans. The Mizrachi spread from Mitzraim to Bavel and to India and China. West of that are the Maghrebim including the new guys in Timbuktu, Mali down to Nigeria.
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Post by Yankel on Jul 9, 2005 11:31:24 GMT -5
Actually, if anyone has or knows of any research done on European Sephardim I'd really like to see it. AFAIK, most Sephardi Jews belong to hg E3b or J, and a large minority to r1b. But the work I've seen doesn't differenciate between Sephardim and Mizrahim.
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Post by yigal on Jul 10, 2005 14:10:53 GMT -5
The Sephardi Tahorim are Western Europeans
i wouldnt consider Turkey,Greece,Yuguslavia and bulgaria to be western europe AFIK only western european country with substantial Sefardi Tahor is Holland
the spanish exiles went to those countries as well as north africa, but go to a barcelona synogouge and ule most likely find Chabad or some other Ashkenazi/chassidic group before you find Sephardim
France on the other hand the true birthplace of ashkenazim (not germany) is now 100% more sephardic do to most French jews diying in the Shoa and new arrivals of Sephardic jews from morroco
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Post by Yankel on Jul 10, 2005 16:49:55 GMT -5
He means that Sephardim are the descendants of Western Europeans who converted to Judaism. While he's obviously wrong, I do wonder what percentage of Sephardim belong to y haplogroup R1b.
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Post by yigal on Jul 10, 2005 22:07:52 GMT -5
dunno all this genetics mumbojumbo but i heard "hg9" is extra high whatever that means
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Post by Wadaad on Jul 14, 2005 2:00:08 GMT -5
Mizrahim does it have any relations with Misr = arabic for Egypt/ Mizriam = one of the sons of Ham? or is it coincidince? K5, yigal or flowin'?
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