|
Post by alexandrian on May 15, 2005 12:53:52 GMT -5
allright, i should have said they both considered themselves "arabs" They do, but we know that northern Sudanese have only a 1/4 Middle Eastern blood, whereas Egyptians are far more "Middle Eastern" in nature. I think northern Sudanese in Egypt are grouped with Nubians. By the way, Sinai Arabs are considered an ethnic minority in that they too suffer from discrimination (the police rounded up thousands of them in the wake of the Taba bombings) and have their own governorate and their own section for MPs. I don't know about their ethnic status however. I do know that now though, most workers in the Sinai are actual Egyptians, many from Upper Egypt.
|
|
|
Post by alexandrian on May 15, 2005 12:54:24 GMT -5
No, but an important part of Nubia lies in the northern Sudan. Ever heard of Meroe? You have to draw the line between Lower and Upper Nubia. What does Meroe have to do with the discussion?
|
|
|
Post by alexandrian on May 15, 2005 12:55:10 GMT -5
My point was that Nubia's and Egypt's history are intertwined and they shared a relationship, rocky sometimes, good sometimes. Sure, I'll give you that. But this relationship didn't exist between the end of Nubian dynasty over Egypt and the incorporation of Lower Nubia into the Egyptian nation in the 20th century.
|
|
|
Post by mike2 on May 15, 2005 12:55:33 GMT -5
You have to draw the line between Lower and Upper Nubia. What does Meroe have to do with the discussion? Why do I have to draw a line? It was part of Nubia nonetheless. Does anybody have any pictures of Nubians or North Sudanese?
|
|
|
Post by topdog on May 15, 2005 12:56:52 GMT -5
No, but an important part of Nubia lies in the northern Sudan. Ever heard of Meroe? Sorry Mike, Meroe lies in Upper Nubia, much farther up the river at about the fourth cataract.
|
|
|
Post by alexandrian on May 15, 2005 12:57:49 GMT -5
Why do I have to draw a line? It was part of Nubia nonetheless. Does anybody have any pictures of Nubians or North Sudanese? Gamed-away had pictures of them. Nubians tend to be darker than Northern Sudanese from what I've seen. But a lot of Nubians in Egypt have fairly Caucasian features.
|
|
|
Post by topdog on May 15, 2005 12:58:31 GMT -5
Sure, I'll give you that. But this relationship didn't exist between the end of Nubian dynasty over Egypt and the incorporation of Lower Nubia into the Egyptian nation in the 20th century. It always existed, Christian Nubia and Christian Egypt did share a relationship.
|
|
|
Post by topdog on May 15, 2005 13:00:20 GMT -5
Gamed-away had pictures of them. Nubians tend to be darker than Northern Sudanese from what I've seen. But a lot of Nubians in Egypt have fairly Caucasian features. They have elongated features not Caucasian features although some have absorbed mixture from Arabs who invaded in the 14th century and Turks who came much later on.
|
|
Baladi
Junior Member
Posts: 63
|
Post by Baladi on May 15, 2005 13:02:35 GMT -5
What you forget is that the Nubians share many of the same customs with Egyptians. The el-sebou ceremony and the mawlids are exactly how Egyptians pratice all over Egypt. This is something that often Cairene and Alexandrian Egyptians forget about Nubians.
The relationship that Nubians had with Egyptians does not stop at just the pharaonic age but continues into the Ptolemic period into the Islamic period. I mentioned previously that many Egyptian Christians fled to parts of Sudan and that Nubians helped the Christians of Egypt when in a crisis situlation.
Also you base cultural heritage off genetic components a person has. This is wrong to do in my opinion. The genetic component of a person does not always translate to them being a member of that culture.
|
|
|
Post by alexandrian on May 15, 2005 13:05:23 GMT -5
What you forget is that the Nubians share many of the same customs with Egyptians. The el-sebou ceremony and the mawlids are exactly how Egyptians pratice all over Egypt. This is something that often Cairene and Alexandrian Egyptians forget about Nubians. The relationship that Nubians had with Egyptians does not stop at just the pharaonic age but continues into the Ptolemic period into the Islamic period. I mentioned previously that many Egyptian Christians fled to parts of Sudan and that Nubians helped the Christians of Egypt when in a crisis situlation. Also you base cultural heritage off genetic components a person has. This is wrong to do in my opinion. The genetic component of a person does not always translate to them being a member of that culture. The relationship did not continue in the Ptolemaic period. In the Islamic period, some Nubians moved to Cairo and became bawabs, if you consider that intertwining, I don't. YOu have no back up or proof for saying Egyptian Christians fled to Sudan. Egyptian Christians helped ARab invaders overthrow Byzantine oppressors. Copts were treated well during FAtimid times and Coptic, ARabic, and Greek were simultaneously used until well into the Middle Ages. Only during Mameluke times, did the tide temporarily turn against Christian Egyptians. But they almost always remained in Egypt, except for Coptic monks who traveled to East Africa, Europe, and the other parts of the Middle East.
|
|
|
Post by Wadaad on May 15, 2005 13:06:39 GMT -5
Why do I have to draw a line? It was part of Nubia nonetheless. Does anybody have any pictures of Nubians or North Sudanese?
|
|
|
Post by alexandrian on May 15, 2005 13:07:01 GMT -5
It always existed, Christian Nubia and Christian Egypt did share a relationship. No they didn't. What was the extent of this relationship? IN the time of early Christianity, all Christian nations shared a relationship. But Nubians were never part of the Egyptian church and today there's not a single Christian Nubian in existence. Just because they were both Christian is meaningless.
|
|
|
Post by mike2 on May 15, 2005 13:08:33 GMT -5
Sorry Mike, Meroe lies in Upper Nubia, much farther up the river at about the fourth cataract. Is there a big difference between Lower Nubia and Upper Nubia? Are they completely different civilizations or something? Or does it parallel the relationship of Upper and Lower Egypt?
|
|
|
Post by Yankel on May 15, 2005 13:16:08 GMT -5
And, what difference does that make? Bottom line: Egypt (excluding the Sinai) is part of Africa, not Asia. Egyptians are culturally and many times gentically linked to sub-Saharan Africa. Why is that so difficult for you to admit?
|
|
|
Post by alexandrian on May 15, 2005 13:29:30 GMT -5
Bottom line: Egypt (excluding the Sinai) is part of Africa, not Asia. Egyptians are culturally and many times gentically linked to sub-Saharan Africa. Why is that so difficult for you to admit? Because it's an exaggeration. Egyptians have a Middle Eastern culture. They are genetically closest to Middle Easterners and oftentimes are closer to (southern)Europeans than sub-Saharan Africans. Why is that so hard for you to admit?
|
|