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Post by topdog on May 15, 2005 12:43:24 GMT -5
A part of Nubia is a part of Egypt, but Sudan isn't. Mike the Birton was ridiculous when he said Sudan could have been a part of Egypt, that's like saying India could have been a part of Great Britain. There are great differences between Sudanese and Nubians in Egypt. Whereas Egyptians like Nubians and think of them as being very honest and trustworthy (hence the whole bawab thing), they view the Sudanese, especially Sudanese refugees, as freeloaders and zingi. The other part of Nubia lies in Sudan, so yes, **NUBIA** is a part of Egypt. Not all Sudanese are Nubians. The histories of Egypt and Nubia are intertwined, since antiquity, so they are linked to one another.
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Post by alexandrian on May 15, 2005 12:44:01 GMT -5
Actually, no, it was a real possibility that Sudan could have joined Egypt as one country after the British left. The Sudanese just chose not to. Oh god Mike, that is simply not true. When the British left Egypt (which they didn't leave fully until 1952), Sudan lost its entire connection to Egypt! That was the end of Anglo-Egyptian Sudan. The British ruled over Sudan, it was simply the Egyptian khedive who carried out their wishes. Don't be ridiculous. You talk about things you don't even know.
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Post by topdog on May 15, 2005 12:44:26 GMT -5
Mike, Sudan NEVER had the choice to be a part of Egypt. Anglo-Egyptian Sudan was a colonial venture. The king of Egypt was overseer of Sudan on behalf of the British, thats how it worked. Also, Anglo-Egyptian Sudan lasted a hundered years, and again, was basically a master-subject relationship with egypt and Britain being joint masters over the subject of Sudan. Also, Anglo-Egyptian Sudan was basically a late 19th-century to early 20th-century thing, it didn't even last a century. Do you think India had a chance to be a part of Great Britian? Of course not! It would have always remained a colony. You're still forgeting, part of ancient Nubia lies in modern Egypt.
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Post by mike2 on May 15, 2005 12:44:49 GMT -5
But Great Britain and India don't border each other. Egypt and Sudan do.
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Post by Wadaad on May 15, 2005 12:45:35 GMT -5
But Great Britain and India don't border each other. Egypt and Sudan do. Britain and Indians are not the same ethnic group too...but North Sudanese and egyptians are both Arabs lol
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Post by alexandrian on May 15, 2005 12:46:23 GMT -5
The other part of Nubia lies in Sudan, so yes, **NUBIA** is a part of Egypt. Not all Sudanese are Nubians. The histories of Egypt and Nubia are intertwined, since antiquity, so they are linked to one another. Nubia and Egypt were intertwined in antiquity and a part of Nubia is part of Egypt today. Not much happened between the two in the 2500 years between both events. Even today, Nubia is not considered a part of Egypt, but is its own governorate and its own "section" of the country in terms of the MPs it can send. Also, Nubians are considered an ethnic minority in Egypt- much like Gypsies in Central Europe. Lower Nubia and the lands south of Aswan were never considered part of Egypt by the ancient Egyptians, just a mere colony. It wasn't until the 20th century that Lower Nubia became a part of Egypt.
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Post by alexandrian on May 15, 2005 12:47:13 GMT -5
But Great Britain and India don't border each other. Egypt and Sudan do. And, what difference does that make? It's still a master-subject relationship. Do you understand the whole point of colonialism? I find it entertaining that you talk about something you know so little about- like modern Egyptian history.
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Post by alexandrian on May 15, 2005 12:47:48 GMT -5
Britain and Indians are not the same ethnic group too...but North Sudanese and egyptians are both Arabs lol You know neither groups are related. And you also know neither groups are "ARabs".
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Post by Wadaad on May 15, 2005 12:48:19 GMT -5
hey Alex...what about the bedouin Arabs of the Sinai desert, are they considered ethnic minorities there or not?
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Post by Wadaad on May 15, 2005 12:48:19 GMT -5
hey Alex...what about the bedouin Arabs of the Sinai desert, are they considered ethnic minorities there or not?
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Post by mike2 on May 15, 2005 12:48:48 GMT -5
And, what difference does that make? It's still a master-subject relationship. Do you understand the whole point of colonialism? I find it entertaining that you talk about something you know so little about- like modern Egyptian history. Actually, I'm taking this from a man named John Gunther who wrote a book called Inside Africa in the 1950's. He was right up in the thick of the political discussion. In it he related the possibility of Sudan joining Egypt as one country, but he thought that the Sudanese craved independence too much to submit to the rule of another overlord. He said they probably wouldn't want to trade Britain for Egypt. He was right. So take it up with John Gunther. He's long dead and gone, though.
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Post by Wadaad on May 15, 2005 12:49:18 GMT -5
You know neither groups are related. And you also know neither groups are "ARabs". allright, i should have said they both considered themselves "arabs"
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Post by topdog on May 15, 2005 12:50:07 GMT -5
Where do I deny that? Nubia and Sudan are not the same thing. My point was that Nubia's and Egypt's history are intertwined and they shared a relationship, rocky sometimes, good sometimes.
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Post by alexandrian on May 15, 2005 12:50:54 GMT -5
Actually, I'm taking this from a man named John Gunther who wrote a book called Inside Africa in the 1950's. He was right up in the thick of the political discussion. In it he related the possibility of Sudan joining Egypt as one country, but he thought that the Sudanese craved independence too much to submit to the rule of another overlord. He said they probably wouldn't want to trade Britain for Egypt. He was right. So take it up with John Gunther. He's long dead and gone, though. Well, I'm sorry to say but that is simply not true. Sudan was a territory of Egypt until the Free Officer's coup which removed the khedive from existence and thus his title of purveyor of the Sudan ceased to exist as well. The Free Officers were Egyptian nationalists who seeked to erase traces of the colonial past and thus did away with the whole Anglo-Egyptian Sudan.
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Post by mike2 on May 15, 2005 12:53:08 GMT -5
Where do I deny that? Nubia and Sudan are not the same thing. No, but an important part of Nubia lies in the northern Sudan. Ever heard of Meroe?
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