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Post by SensoUnico on Apr 27, 2005 7:49:57 GMT -5
You are just one big Troll. Keep trolling away with your Afrocentrist garbage, I have more interesting things to do than communicate with religious zealots. Why can´t you disagree without calling C.Bass names? I expect you to apologize in your next post.
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Post by topdog on Apr 27, 2005 7:52:26 GMT -5
So what! I am not interested if Ben in Rome proposed the same thing, I have my own relgion and it is not Afrocentrism. And why should I accept Tischkoff? If Tischkoff eats, shits and will rot then I could not care less what it may think. It is just his hot air opinion compared to yours or Mariah Carey. So one womans mtDNA spread out of East Africa, and? What does that indicate to other people in Africa who have thousands of women ancestresses with different mtDNA as will as the one you mentioned? Nothing. One mtDNA out of the many possible ones not passed down which could of had many possible origins. So you are staking all your ova on one woman out of thousands as some sort of progenitor. What crap! Just like I knew you would react when confronted with evidence. Your theory on Sanids is just a theory and it isn't even backed by anything except what you wish to believe. I'm not addressing you about this any longer.
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Post by topdog on Apr 27, 2005 7:54:50 GMT -5
You are just one big Troll. Keep trolling away with your Afrocentrist garbage, I have more interesting things to do than communicate with religious zealots. I like the way you react, its truly funny. I'm posting citations from a nonbiased source and you're calling me an Afrocentrist? I'm a Christian and have been so from birth, when did I mention anything about my religion?
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Post by topdog on Apr 27, 2005 7:59:50 GMT -5
I'm curious as to how the trans-Saharan slave trade affected the composition of the North African population. It must have had some effect, since millions of SS Africans have been transported North over at least the last one thousand years. I've read that in Morocco, at least, descendants of slaves from the south now make up a significant part of the population. What about the rest of North Africa, i. e. Libya, Algeria, Egypt, et al? Not really sure what you're saying but yes, sub-Saharans were used as slaves in North Africa but so have Europeans. The central and Southern Saharan were originally inbabited by Negroids until the dessication of the Sahara.
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Post by nockwasright on Apr 27, 2005 10:06:59 GMT -5
Black Americans are just mixed race with a Euro-American lifestyle. There is nothing African or negroid about your cultures, except some silly ideas about islam, an Arabian religion, and usage of goofy names indicating Arabic or pseudo-African names. It is all fake. Being plastic African negroids is not being African or negroid. How comes no one is denied its own culture, even the most non relevant backward populations in the remotest corners of the globe, who no one except an anthropologyst could tell from another similar group, except African American, who have a distinctive music, English, way of dressing, history, that is known and identified as such (as Afro American) by everyone in the western world? Jazz alone would be enough to give a world wide recognised identity to a group. Actually I see many SSA immigrants in Europe identifying themselves with AA culture, dressing like AA, listening to their music, posing as if they were AA. They have no problems in recognising the existence of AA culture.
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Post by Tautamo on Apr 27, 2005 10:09:03 GMT -5
^^ good post
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Post by SensoUnico on Apr 27, 2005 10:19:04 GMT -5
Jazz is an American idiom. A fusion of different musical styles. It is like the American black, a mix. What is Jazz without trumpets, piano, saxophone and other instruments not African in origin? The idiom owes a lot to many people of different races. I suppose Voodoo and grits are going to be added to the contribution of the American black to the world. By the way, I hate Jazz and do not share Bernstein's high regard for that cacophanous noise. What you are talking about is ghetto customs, the customs developed in slums in the USA. If there are people, negroid or caucasoid or mongoloid or australoid or mixed who like that shite, good for them. Eventually they will grow up, need to work, marry, start a family, get old and look back at their youth in horror. Enough, this thread is about North Africa and the Afrocentrist trolls have ruined it, like they do with every thread on Africa. That is what your American blacks do best, is it not?
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Post by nockwasright on Apr 27, 2005 11:28:32 GMT -5
Jazz is an American idiom. A fusion of different musical styles. It is like the American black, a mix. What is Jazz without trumpets, piano, saxophone and other instruments not African in origin? I'm out ot topic, ok eventually this will be deleted, anyway I won't post more here on this subject. But I must say with your reasoning Japanese is not Japanese as they use a Chinese alphabet. Don't you know there is a category "black music" in modern music? Like it or not African American music is here and it is huge. Then if a culture comes from ghettoes, so what? From Jewish ghettoes came pretty high quality staff, IMO. Btw American "slums" are by far richer than most of the places in the world, included Europe (not that this means anything).
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Post by SensoUnico on Apr 27, 2005 12:05:16 GMT -5
You Americans have totally screwed this thread. I hope you are all very proud. By the way, if America got sucked into hell tomorrow, the world would get on just fine without you.
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Post by Springa on Apr 27, 2005 15:19:13 GMT -5
Every single artform is influenced by things that came before. Even classical music is sometimes influenced by other sorts of music. That does not change the fact that Jazz and most popular music of the last century actually comes from music forms invented by black americans. It may be a fusion of many different music styles. But the people who first produced this fusion were black, so forget it. It's a fact, and to deny it just makes you look silly and less intelligent and cultured than you probably are. The idea of cultural purity is even more absurd than the idea of racial purity, and to associate both things is yet even more absurd. Musical instruments all come from other more primitive instruments and many of them came from the orient, the middle east and even Africa. I´m sorry, but to claim that black american music is not really black american because they use western instruments is like saying there was never an European war because gun powder was invented by the Chinese, or that if you write a book using China Ink it´s gonna be an Asian book. Jazz, Blues, Gospel, R&B, Rock & Roll, Soul, Funk, Disco, Hip Hop and even Techno music. It´s a matter of subjective taste wether they´re good or bad forms of art, but they´ve all been invented by black Americans, it´s a fact. Wether black Americans have a good or bad culture is also a matter of debate and opinion. But yes, they do have one, and if you express your dislile of it, which is your right, you´re agreeing to the fact that it exists. Jazz is an American idiom. A fusion of different musical styles. It is like the American black, a mix. What is Jazz without trumpets, piano, saxophone and other instruments not African in origin? The idiom owes a lot to many people of different races. I suppose Voodoo and grits are going to be added to the contribution of the American black to the world. By the way, I hate Jazz and do not share Bernstein's high regard for that cacophanous noise. What you are talking about is ghetto customs, the customs developed in slums in the USA. If there are people, negroid or caucasoid or mongoloid or australoid or mixed who like that shite, good for them. Eventually they will grow up, need to work, marry, start a family, get old and look back at their youth in horror. Enough, this thread is about North Africa and the Afrocentrist trolls have ruined it, like they do with every thread on Africa. That is what your American blacks do best, is it not?
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Post by mike2 on Apr 27, 2005 16:06:04 GMT -5
I think the problem is attributing a single culture, a single standard of achievement to a racial or ethnic group, thinking that these groups are unified by a single culture, a core set of values. Hardly.
Eminem and Stephen Hawking are both white, but I would hardly call them members of some universal white culture. Hawking is a genius who has contributed immensely to the field of science. Eminem is a worthless piece of amphibian shite.
50 Cent and Bill Cosby are both black, but I would hardly call them members of some universal black culture. Cosby is a superb member of society, who upholds core American values. 50 Cent is a worthless piece of amphibian shite.
I think if you're going to recognize the existence of subcultures, you should do so on a non-racial basis if at all possible. I realize that race and culture sometimes go hand in hand. If you speak Paman, throw boomerangs at animals, wear scanty clothing, and believe in bunyips, you're probably an Australian aborigine. There's no avoiding that in cases such as this. But I'd hardly say this is the pattern with a country as diverse as America.
Here I think culture should be based on language, custom, and interests. For instance, there is an English-speaking culture (language), a Victorian culture (custom), and even an anime culture (interest). These cultures overlap. Ethnic identity is different from culture. Bill Cosby and 50-Cent may identify as black, but I hardly see Cosby driving around in a bulletproof car calling people bitches and niggas. In the same vein, I don't see 50-Cent making speeches about how black kids should start pulling their pants up and stop talking trash.
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Berter
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Post by Berter on Apr 27, 2005 16:19:00 GMT -5
There could be a third element besides the SS African and Med mix, because Berbers sometimes have a peculiar look (this guy is not even the best example... I'll try to update) that neither Ethiopians nor mullattoes have. There is no 3rd or nth element in ethnic berbers; We are not a mix of Meds (I suppose you meant Euro-meds) and Blacks. We are a separate race/caucasoid subtype. The sole fact that we have a distinct culture (language et all) proves we do not descend from neither Euros or Blacks.
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Berter
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Post by Berter on Apr 27, 2005 16:30:47 GMT -5
Are you hinting at a Khoisanid element? Thats not true, Eufrenio. Any scientific proof of that hypothesis!?. I heard of it many times but to me it just reflects people's ignorance. Similarly, Would I be right if I generalise my personal observation of some germans having mongoloid features to the whole german population!?... Example: Mickael Ballack
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Berter
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Post by Berter on Apr 27, 2005 17:01:14 GMT -5
The unique look is what makes Berbers as a group distinctive from other people. It is possible there is a KhoiSanid element in North Africans as it is my belief that as African indigenes they lived over most of the savannah that is now the Sahara and were there before the intrusions south of caucasoids, Berbers or east, pastoral Negroids, Nilotid types. Eventually those KhoiSanids that survived intact were pushed east and then south in Africa. However that would be a long time in the past and any KhoiSanid features would be heavily overlaid be either negroid or caucasoid features. There is one physical characteristic I have noticed in Berbers. An external eyefold from the top of the eyelid which hangs over the outer edge of the eye like some sort of blinkers. Personally I think that foreigners should shut up if the natives tell or show you what their fellow countrymen look like. I will take their word any day to your musings from some foreigners far off countries with no connection to North Africa except second hand information. Yes I have been to Morocco, it is a cheap and easy destination from the UK. Why you take this man with clear heavy negroid admixture as a representative of the real berbers!?. I posted pics of real berbers, do you see in them that trait you suspect to be a distinctive physical characteristic of berbers!?. I personally see no physical pressure (---environmental constraint) that would have forced our ancestors to developp such a trait. I believe we are natives of the central and northern regions of NWAs: non-sandy lands with moderate temperatures. The external eyefold you observed on some berbers might be a regional (saharid) adaptation that were developped latter by the berbers who reached the southern sahara or a borrowed trait from ss-peoples. Those mixed berbers are not Berbers in my book
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Berter
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Post by Berter on Apr 27, 2005 17:06:26 GMT -5
Those are some very good-looking tattoos. Those tatoos are the irrefutable proof that she is an ethnic berber girl. If she had no tatoos, people here would have thought she is a foreigner model wearing traditional berber clothes ...
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