|
Post by Igu on Apr 26, 2005 17:03:33 GMT -5
Ah! I know that band, they are led by Amazigh, the kabyle amazigh not the riffian! ;D Amazigh! he identifies as Kabyle but his father is chawi-berber, a great writer his father was. one of the few pro-kabyle non kabyle!! Kateb Yacine:
|
|
Berter
New Member
Et si on fait un tour ensemble, Nouna!?
Posts: 6
|
Post by Berter on Apr 26, 2005 17:04:25 GMT -5
it can't be untrue, I'd say it's not 100% correct. Marrakech berbers are from the Rif, and they get totally different frequencies. remember that the porpuse of genetics is to recreate the process of migrations not to quantify admixtures. Marrakech berbers are from the riff!? riffians!?...I met riffians who can pass un-challenged in germany, and thats not a joke!
|
|
|
Post by Igu on Apr 26, 2005 17:08:49 GMT -5
Marrakech berbers are from the riff!? riffians!?...I met riffians who can pass un-challenged in germany, and thats not a joke! ah sorry!! I'm confusing, marrakech berbers they are shleuh.
|
|
|
Post by Criollo on Apr 26, 2005 17:26:14 GMT -5
These are Berbers they do not represent the majority racial or ethnic component in north Africa which is what this thread was originaly about I already knew that Berbers were white...
|
|
|
Post by eufrenio on Apr 26, 2005 17:38:44 GMT -5
There could be a third element besides the SS African and Med mix, because Berbers sometimes have a peculiar look (this guy is not even the best example... I'll try to update) that neither Ethiopians nor mullattoes have. Are you hinting at a Khoisanid element?
|
|
|
Post by SensoUnico on Apr 26, 2005 23:37:18 GMT -5
The unique look is what makes Berbers as a group distinctive from other people. It is possible there is a KhoiSanid element in North Africans as it is my belief that as African indigenes they lived over most of the savannah that is now the Sahara and were there before the intrusions south of caucasoids, Berbers or east, pastoral Negroids, Nilotid types. Eventually those KhoiSanids that survived intact were pushed east and then south in Africa. However that would be a long time in the past and any KhoiSanid features would be heavily overlaid be either negroid or caucasoid features. There is one physical characteristic I have noticed in Berbers. An external eyefold from the top of the eyelid which hangs over the outer edge of the eye like some sort of blinkers. Personally I think that foreigners should shut up if the natives tell or show you what their fellow countrymen look like. I will take their word any day to your musings from some foreigners far off countries with no connection to North Africa except second hand information. Yes I have been to Morocco, it is a cheap and easy destination from the UK.
|
|
|
Post by Criollo on Apr 27, 2005 0:05:37 GMT -5
The unique look is what makes Berbers as a group distinctive from other people. It is possible there is a KhoiSanid element in North Africans as it is my belief that as African indigenes they lived over most of the savannah that is now the Sahara and were there before the intrusions south of caucasoids, Berbers or east, pastoral Negroids, Nilotid types. Eventually those KhoiSanids that survived intact were pushed east and then south in Africa. However that would be a long time in the past and any KhoiSanid features would be heavily overlaid be either negroid or caucasoid features. There is one physical characteristic I have noticed in Berbers. An external eyefold from the top of the eyelid which hangs over the outer edge of the eye like some sort of blinkers. Personally I think that foreigners should shut up if the natives tell or show you what their fellow countrymen look like. I will take their word any day to your musings from some foreigners far off countries with no connection to North Africa except second hand information. Yes I have been to Morocco, it is a cheap and easy destination from the UK. Have you seen what a typical immigrant from north Africa looks like?? I assure you they do not look like the vast majority of the people in those pictures.
|
|
|
Post by MC anunnaki on Apr 27, 2005 2:19:40 GMT -5
Anyone here see any negroid admixture in this berber lady!?... Those are some very good-looking tattoos.
|
|
|
Post by amksa on Apr 27, 2005 5:44:11 GMT -5
the features of the gnawa (Ignawen = "the mute ones" in Berber) are changeable, depending from the city they come from, this ones are probably from Mogagdor/Essaouira : they are heavily influenced by the well-known Berber confederation of the Ihahan which surrounds the city . Je parie que tu as trouvé la photo sur le site des juifs amazigh dafina.net ! héhé.
|
|
|
Post by amksa on Apr 27, 2005 5:49:59 GMT -5
yes that's weird, marrakech berbers are rifains! this is'nt as surprising, most Marrakchis originated from remoted places in high atlas like Ourika valley : the ex wife of my father was a redhead Berber from Ourika.
|
|
|
Post by topdog on Apr 27, 2005 7:26:22 GMT -5
Charlie, you would not know a real North African if he bit you on the buttocks. As if you would know what I know? Speak for yourself, not for me. Most American blacks know nothing about Africa, don't speak for what my people know/don't know as if you're some authority on African-Americans. No one ever stated anything to the opposite so what are you babbling about? You're in no position to educate me about anything. Who assumed anything? Negroids are indigenous to the central and southern Sahara so a black Moroccan in southern Morocco could just as well be indigenous. Again, who stated that? African Americans, though having an overwhelmingly strong biological relationship to Africa in terms of shared ancestry are distinct from Africans just as well, genetically and historically speaking. Everything that is 'African-American' is indigenous in that sense. I never assumed anything, quit creating strawmen to refute. Don't put words nor thoughts in my mouth and mind. Yes Tuaregs are Berbers and their territory ranges from North Africa to sub-Saharan Africa. Some look mixed some do not. Wrong , African-Americans are not culturally European-American nor European and though we have absorbed some mixture we are not mulatto people. The language has nothing to do with anything; using your line if reasoning we can argue that North Africans who speak Arabic, follow Arab customs, and consider themselves as Arabs are not real North Africans, eventhough North Africans have absorbed very little Arab mixture, hence Arabisation was primarily cultural not biological.
|
|
|
Post by SensoUnico on Apr 27, 2005 7:36:20 GMT -5
Charlie, you are a one page book! And everyone can tell that you are American, a black and an Afrocentrist. You are as transparent as glass. Black Americans are just mixed race with a Euro-American lifestyle. There is nothing African or negroid about your cultures, except some silly ideas about islam, an Arabian religion, and usage of goofy names indicating Arabic or pseudo-African names. It is all fake. Being plastic African negroids is not being African or negroid. Tuaregs could range to Afghanistan for all I care. They are nomadic and belong no where, have no roots in any place. That does not mean they come from North Africa or are not mixed with negroids. They at least are authentic in their African culture and origins unlike American plastic blacks and they do not mean Afrocentrism to feel authentic.
|
|
|
Post by topdog on Apr 27, 2005 7:36:57 GMT -5
The unique look is what makes Berbers as a group distinctive from other people. It is possible there is a KhoiSanid element in North Africans as it is my belief that as African indigenes they lived over most of the savannah that is now the Sahara and were there before the intrusions south of caucasoids, Berbers or east, pastoral Negroids, Nilotid types. Eventually those KhoiSanids that survived intact were pushed east and then south in Africa. However that would be a long time in the past and any KhoiSanid features would be heavily overlaid be either negroid or caucasoid features. There is one physical characteristic I have noticed in Berbers. An external eyefold from the top of the eyelid which hangs over the outer edge of the eye like some sort of blinkers. . Coon proposed the same thing and there is no evidence of Khoisanid remains in the Sahara, neither is there any evidence of from genetics that Khoisanids ever inhabited the Sahara. The latest evidence from Tischkoff indicates that Khoisanids originated in East Africa. The earliest remains from the central and southern Sahara are of a stock ancestral to Negroids. This is further corroborated by the fact that haplotype L2a, which is the most common shared African mtDNA, is hypothesised to have spread to both East and West Africa after the LGM, from someplace in the Sahel area.
|
|
|
Post by SensoUnico on Apr 27, 2005 7:46:42 GMT -5
So what! I am not interested if Ben in Rome proposed the same thing, I have my own relgion and it is not Afrocentrism. And why should I accept Tischkoff? If Tischkoff eats, shits and will rot then I could not care less what it may think. It is just his hot air opinion compared to yours or Mariah Carey. So one womans mtDNA spread out of East Africa, and? What does that indicate to other people in Africa who have thousands of women ancestresses with different mtDNA as will as the one you mentioned? Nothing. One mtDNA out of the many possible ones not passed down which could of had many possible origins. So you are staking all your ova on one woman out of thousands as some sort of progenitor. What crap!
Please keep it civil!
|
|
|
Post by topdog on Apr 27, 2005 7:47:57 GMT -5
Charlie, you are a one page book! And everyone can tell that you are American, a black and an Afrocentrist. You are as transparent as glass. Black Americans are just mixed race with a Euro-American lifestyle. There is nothing African or negroid about your cultures, except some silly ideas about islam, an Arabian religion, and usage of goofy names indicating Arabic or pseudo-African names. There are plenty of African things about African Americans, especially when it comes to religion. You are no spokesman for my people so speak for yourself. have you ever heard of the Gullah people? I am not a Muslim and my lifestyle isn't Euro-American. African-Americans have a distinct culture of our own, just because we don't speak African languages and dress like Africans doesn't make us Euro-American by default. Black Americans are primarily sub-Saharan in origin with some mixture. Oh yes Turaegs do have roots... Andrew B. Smith A prehistory of modern Saharan pastoralists ABSTRACT Using archaeological and ethnographic data, this paper suggests that the ancestors of many modern Saharan pastoral groups, e.g. Tuareg, Toubou, Beja, may have had connections during the mid- to late-Holocene. Deep-meaning, exemplified by rock art and funerary monuments in the past, and pre-Islamic religious beliefs in the present, offer clues to a possible common heritage. It is further suggested that prehistoric Saharan herders may have been cultural innovators, and ideas spread from the Sahara to the Nile Valley and the Maghreb. www.saharajournal.com/15/pages/abs_15.htmlWhatever, African Americans have a history and a culture. You are no spokesman for my people so quit generalising about my people
|
|