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Post by Igu on May 14, 2005 13:15:20 GMT -5
Spiritual WEalth? When women are cloaked in Saudi Arabia like black ghosts. Let me ask you something GAmed-awy, and I want you to respond honestly. Who do you consider more of a "brother" or more closely related to you- a Christian from Egypt or a Muslim from Pakistan or Nigeria? Oh poor dhimmi (no offense), you'll be disappointed!
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Post by alexandrian on May 14, 2005 13:16:32 GMT -5
Oh poor dhimmi (no offense), you'll be disappointed! What do you mean by dhimmi?
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Post by Igu on May 14, 2005 13:19:13 GMT -5
What do you mean by dhimmi? I usually use it in a derogatery way (Submissive non-muslim), But in this case, I use it to describe how Gamed awy sees you NEVER NEVER TRUST A MUSLIM.
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Post by Shenuda on May 17, 2005 2:55:53 GMT -5
Let me ask you something Gamed-awy, and I want you to respond honestly. Who do you consider more of a "brother" or more closely related to you- a Christian from Egypt or a Muslim from Pakistan or Nigeria? This is really hard and a little abstract question. However being Coptic American of Egyptian-Armenian origin I can´t consider you to be very close to me The spiritual relation between muslimeen is at least for me stronger and more important than any other relation (blood,citizenship ...)
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Post by amksa on May 17, 2005 5:15:48 GMT -5
This is really hard and a little abstract question. However being Coptic American of Egyptian-Armenian origin I can´t consider you to be very close to me The spiritual relation between muslimeen is at least for me stronger and more important than any other relation (blood,citizenship ...) logical. christians and occidentals feel the same way (from what i've seen in my life.)
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Post by Ponto Hardbottle on May 17, 2005 6:21:34 GMT -5
I disagree with you. Christian Europeans do not feel any closeness to any Christian whether European or not. My closeness to others has nothing to do with sharing religion. It is more sharing other attitudes and beliefs but religion no. Marriage is an exception. I think it is outrageous that a half European muslim born in Europe should feel more in common with some person from Nigeria or Pakistan than an Egyptian since Egypt is his pater's homeland. It makes no sense to me. The religious practices of Nigerians or Pakistanis or Turkomen living in Afghanistan or some Bedouin in Israel is probably nothing like yours barring mouthing all the same things and going through the same rituals. Piety has nothing to do with how many times you wash your ears or feet. The Australian citizen Mamdouh Habib was turned over to the Americans by the Pakistanis. That man is a pious muslim.
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Post by alexandrian on May 17, 2005 17:07:56 GMT -5
This is really hard and a little abstract question. However being Coptic American of Egyptian-Armenian origin I can´t consider you to be very close to me The spiritual relation between muslimeen is at least for me stronger and more important than any other relation (blood,citizenship ...) It's not hard or abstract. I get the answer. You consider a Muslim of a completely different race closer to you than a Christian of your same nationality. How comforting.
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Post by amksa on May 18, 2005 8:15:04 GMT -5
I disagree with you. Christian Europeans do not feel any closeness to any Christian whether European or not. My closeness to others has nothing to do with sharing religion. It is more sharing other attitudes and beliefs but religion no. Marriage is an exception. I think it is outrageous that a half European muslim born in Europe should feel more in common with some person from Nigeria or Pakistan than an Egyptian since Egypt is his pater's homeland. It makes no sense to me. The religious practices of Nigerians or Pakistanis or Turkomen living in Afghanistan or some Bedouin in Israel is probably nothing like yours barring mouthing all the same things and going through the same rituals. Piety has nothing to do with how many times you wash your ears or feet. The Australian citizen Mamdouh Habib was turned over to the Americans by the Pakistanis. That man is a pious muslim. i agree with you on one point : nobody should feel close to someone else (from different race or not) because of sharing the same religion... religions are for weak people who need a shepherd in order to act decently, i 'm my own amksa (shepherd.) but, those days, i've just noticed that more and more people, in europe, show their christianity. Even in France where there was a long tradition of mockery about the Pope, his death was celebrated by everyone with an obvious sentiment of membership to a special community. Even in this site, many complained because no thread was open to pay tribute to the Pope. I think that europeans suffer of the same "identity reflex" that they attribute to the darky crowd : this is visible in the prejudices that they nourish, especially in france, where there is an expression which sum up what i 'm trying to explain you : French always say that they are part of the "judéo-chretienne" culture. In france, i recently perceived a nostalgy of colonial times.
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Post by Shenuda on May 18, 2005 8:37:39 GMT -5
It's not hard or abstract. I get the answer. You consider a Muslim of a completely different race closer to you than a Christian of your same nationality. How comforting. It IS abstract question. For me your are not much more than "virtual compatriot" (no offense) + you are American. I don´t know you personally, so I can´t say if you are closer to me than some Pakistani or Nigerian. And it has nothing to do with race. We must speak about concrete persons ;D not about some people from an internet forum or chat.
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Post by alexandrian on May 18, 2005 18:04:45 GMT -5
It IS abstract question. For me your are not much more than "virtual compatriot" (no offense) + you are American. I don´t know you personally, so I can´t say if you are closer to me than some Pakistani or Nigerian. And it has nothing to do with race. We must speak about concrete persons ;D not about some people from an internet forum or chat. I know, but I am saying, do you "feel" a stronger connection to an Egyptian Christian you've never met or a black or Asian Muslim you've never met?
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Post by Wadaad on May 18, 2005 18:08:17 GMT -5
I disagree with you. Christian Europeans do not feel any closeness to any Christian whether European or not. My closeness to others has nothing to do with sharing religion. It is more sharing other attitudes and beliefs but religion no. Marriage is an exception. I think it is outrageous that a half European muslim born in Europe should feel more in common with some person from Nigeria or Pakistan than an Egyptian since Egypt is his pater's homeland. It makes no sense to me. The religious practices of Nigerians or Pakistanis or Turkomen living in Afghanistan or some Bedouin in Israel is probably nothing like yours barring mouthing all the same things and going through the same rituals. Piety has nothing to do with how many times you wash your ears or feet. The Australian citizen Mamdouh Habib was turned over to the Americans by the Pakistanis. That man is a pious muslim. Thats the difference between Islam and Christianity...in utopic Islam, once a man submits to the will of Allah, he is regarded as part of the greater muslim brotherhood, thge Ummah
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Post by Shenuda on May 19, 2005 5:17:54 GMT -5
I know, but I am saying, do you "feel" a stronger connection to an Egyptian Christian you've never met or a black or Asian Muslim you've never met? Hmmm ... maybe the Egyptian Christian would be somehow more familiar than Indonesian muslim BTW, here is one inspirative text for you : On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?" He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live." But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?" In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.' "Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?" The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him." Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."
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Post by Ponto Hardbottle on May 19, 2005 5:28:49 GMT -5
Thats the difference between Islam and Christianity...in utopic Islam, once a man submits to the will of Allah, he is regarded as part of the greater muslim brotherhood, thge Ummah This getting off topic. But you are right but for the wrong reasons. Christianity is older than Islam and don't give me that guff about Abraham being a muslim or any other Hebrew. That is one of the lies perpetuated by Muhammad. Islam started when that man invented it. Christianity started hundred of years before and in its beginning it was utopian and a tight community, but as the religion aged it lost it. Christianity is equivalent to an adult person. Islam is adolescent, some ugly pimply face kid with lots of ideas and absolutely no patience or practicality to achieve them. Your giving yourselves away to Ummah is just the cohesion of street gangs nothing more. Christians do not submit to anyone, they are God fearing not some slaves growling at some Allah's feet. Now drop your religious jingoism and get back to North Africans.
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Post by Wadaad on May 19, 2005 5:42:46 GMT -5
Alright I'll stick to North Africans, no point arguing you, you are obviously biased beyond the point of no return, and no reply I'd make would change your opinion about Islam...allow me to just say that Islam is more complicated than what you make of it
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Post by Shenuda on May 19, 2005 7:40:01 GMT -5
Alright I'll stick to North Africans, no point arguing you, you are obviously biased beyond the point of no return, and no reply I'd make would change your opinion about Islam...allow me to just say that Islam is more complicated than what you make of it I agree. It´s futile to argue with such people about religion.
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