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Post by Melnorme on May 3, 2005 6:17:35 GMT -5
Tsk tsk. Better stop the petty ethnic squabbling before one or both of you gets banned.
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Post by Meddish on May 3, 2005 6:46:41 GMT -5
Tsk tsk. Better stop the petty ethnic squabbling before one or both of you gets banned. I dont have a problem with that Melnorme in fact He started it
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Post by uygurkazak1988 on May 3, 2005 7:07:01 GMT -5
Islam is an outdated religion. I will denounce my sunni muslim faith. I'm not even supposed to be sunni, I'm supposed to be Shiite. I'll become Jewish or something! It's really in now! Being a nomad I'll change my religion every two weeks. The main mormon church in Cypus is close to my house. i'll go there. Maybe they should have closed the Ottoman Empire down and opened a kebab shop or something. Whatever! I'm stopping this ethnic squabble so I don't get banned. Sorry moderator
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Post by uygurkazak1988 on May 3, 2005 7:24:51 GMT -5
Ok well im at least 12.5% Turkish maternal grandmother from Istanbul so I must have maybe 1% Turkic(central asian genes) So does that make me a Turk??? If you accept that Turan is one of the main struggles and indeed say "Ne mutlu Turkum diyene" then you might be considered a turk, although turk as in from turkey. Many people would never accept you fully as a turk because of your Arab stance to things. Pure Turks I must point out- Live in Turan, and definitely you are a turk if you live in Turkestan which is the haert of the Turkic peoples and Culture. Speak Turkish or any other Turkic language. Turkic specifically not Japanese or Tajik or Finnish. Have Turanid Admixture, like me where it is very obvious. Enjoy Wrestling, Hot Baths, Horse Riding, Archery and defeating your enemies Must not be very religious. Real Turks are nomads and shouldn't be influenced and aren't in the end, by an unchanging religion like Islam. But islam is better than nothing Accept the Grey Wolf as their symbol. A Grey Wolf led the Turks out of starvation in Central Asia. But- Meddish, if you become a supporter of the Grey Wolves, then you're a real turk anyway!
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Post by Meddish on May 3, 2005 8:08:13 GMT -5
RE:If you accept that Turan is one of the main struggles and indeed say "Ne mutlu Turkum diyene" then you might be considered a turk, although turk as in from turkey. Many people would never accept you fully as a turk because of your Arab stance to things. Pure Turks I must point out- Live in Turan, and definitely you are a turk if you live in Turkestan which is the haert of the Turkic peoples and Culture. Speak Turkish or any other Turkic language. Turkic specifically not Japanese or Tajik or Finnish. Have Turanid Admixture, like me where it is very obvious. Enjoy Wrestling, Hot Baths, Horse Riding, Archery and defeating your enemies Must not be very religious. Real Turks are nomads and shouldn't be influenced and aren't in the end, by an unchanging religion like Islam. But islam is better than nothing Accept the Grey Wolf as their symbol. A Grey Wolf led the Turks out of starvation in Central Asia. But- Meddish, if you become a supporter of the Grey Wolves, then you're a real turk anyway! Ok if I say the above statment! Ne mutlu Turkum diyene (what does it mean>?) Learn Turkish, turn my stance to pan-turkic ideals and not pan-arabist ideas.well so far from what you have told me I "support" the Grey-wolves.Btw I have Kurdish blood but as there is no such thing as a Kurd as they are mountain turks than I am 25% Turk correct? Look im even going with the spirit of being Turk by wearing the Fez! How much more Turkish can I be!!! ;D ;D
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Post by NuSapiens on May 3, 2005 9:09:58 GMT -5
Accept the Grey Wolf as their symbol. A Grey Wolf led the Turks out of starvation in Central Asia. Is this part of a myth or folktale? Could you explain a bit more about the Grey Wolf symbol? Thanks.
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Post by Circe on May 3, 2005 10:33:31 GMT -5
Turkey shouldn't be called turkey. It sounds like a flightless bird eaten during Thanksgiving and New Year, first of all, and the Oguz Turks aren't the only Turks there are. There are Tatars, Kirghiz, Kazaks , Uzbeks, Bashkirs, Chuvashs, Sibirs, azeris you name it. Since the other nations are called by the name of the turkic tribes, then turkey should be called oguziye or oguzistan and not turkiye, since its population are descendants of the Oguz Turks and the Oguz Turks don't reflect all Turks. Yes, the name Turkey does sound a bit funny in English ;D Anyway, it seems we had a misunderstanding regarding terminology here Are you saying that the noun Turk should denote ALL the Turkic peoples? I have always connected the word "Turks" with Oghuz only The way I see it, all the peoples you enumerated are Turkic (mind you, this word functions also as a noun in English), not Turks. In that vein, a pan-Turkic state could be called "Turkistan", or something similar... Of course if my 1st premise was wrong the conclusion cannot be much better
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Ardashir
Junior Member
Life,war and nothing else!
Posts: 97
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Post by Ardashir on May 4, 2005 1:21:34 GMT -5
It seems like you did not read what I have written. Which Central Asian population are you talking about? Turkic Central Asian gene pool on average!
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Ardashir
Junior Member
Life,war and nothing else!
Posts: 97
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Post by Ardashir on May 4, 2005 1:36:11 GMT -5
I am pan-turkist and pan-turanist, although not in the usual sense because secularism is extremely important to the efficient rule of a country. Turkey shouldn't be called turkey. It sounds like a flightless bird eaten during Thanksgiving and New Year, first of all, and the Oguz Turks aren't the only Turks there are. There are Tatars, Kirghiz, Kazaks , Uzbeks, Bashkirs, Chuvashs, Sibirs, azeris you name it. Since the other nations are called by the name of the turkic tribes, then turkey should be called oguziye or oguzistan and not turkiye, since its population are descendants of the Oguz Turks and the Oguz Turks don't reflect all Turks. Azeris are not Turkic at all.Only their language became a debated Turkish dielect beacause of Turkmen invasions of region. But physically they are utterly Caucasoid: as you see,Azeris look like Iranians a lot!
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Ardashir
Junior Member
Life,war and nothing else!
Posts: 97
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Post by Ardashir on May 4, 2005 1:47:43 GMT -5
Is this part of a myth or folktale? Could you explain a bit more about the Grey Wolf symbol? Thanks. The Gray Wolf symbol is related to Ancient Turkish myths.According to this myth,a gray wolf save a turkic child and fed it.
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Post by Batucan on May 4, 2005 1:52:06 GMT -5
Btw I have Kurdish blood but as there is no such thing as a Kurd as they are mountain turks than I am 25% Turk correct? Just a few idiots have claimed someting like Kurds are mountain Turks but it has been understood as if all Turkish nationalists claim it. There is not something like this. Kurds are different of course but in Europe when somebody commits a crime I would be very happy if they mark his ethnicity (Kurd or not) if he/she is Turkish citizen. In political matter Europeans seperates Turks and Kurds on the other hand if the matter is crime all criminals of Turkey became Turk. This is disgusting. Europeans' standarts are based on double standart. They are not mature...... I have to correct one thing. Fez is not the traditional wearing of Turks. Fez has been brought in offical use in Ottoman Empire only in the 19th century until the end in 1920s. Here you are some examples of traditional Turkish costumes: 19th century Turkey.......... 20th century Turkmenistan In cold places such as Caucasia, Russia, Turkmenistan, Eastern Turkey and Azerbaycan At the beginning of 20th century Turkmenistan. Wearings of Crimean Turkish women....... Is this part of a myth or folktale? Could you explain a bit more about the Grey Wolf symbol? Thanks. It is a myth. I have taken on net and copied the summary(It is a long story): The ancestors of the Türks lived to the west of the Western Sea. They constitute an independent tribe. No doubt they are a detached branch of of the Hsiung-nu. (the Huns) They belong to the A-shih-na clan. Later they were defeated by a neighbouring country which completeley exterminated their tribe. There was a boy aged ten. The soldiers, in view of his youth couldnot bring themselves to kill him. they cut off his feet and arms and threw him into a marsh. There lived there a she wolf who fed him with meat. As the boy grew up he had sexual intercourse with the wolf and made her pregnant. The king [who had earlier attacked the tribe], apprised of the boy being alive, dispatched someone to kill him. The messenger sawthe shewolf with the boy and wanted to kill her as well. But the wolf fled to a mountain north of the Kao-ch'ang.
In the mountain there was a cavern and in the cavern there was a plaincovered with rich vegetation, stretching over several hundreds of li and enclosed on its four sides by mountains. Therein the wolf took refuge and later gave birth to ten boys. The ten boys grew up and took wives from the outside. In front of the gate to the camp they placed a standard with a wolf's head on it, so as to show they had not forgotten their origins. Liitle by little they constituted several hundred families. Several generations later they came out from the cavern, a certain A-hsien-shih led the tribe out from the cavern and submitted to the Juan-Juan. They served as blacksmith to this. www.turkiye.net/sota/culture.htmlIn fact Turks call wolf as Börü but they are are not spell the name of their totem animal according to their beliefs. We say Kurt now instead of börü. The second sacred animal after wolf is deer but it is not a totem. And in fact the color of the wolf is not gray but blue since she was related with sky and sacred animal. Blue was the wholy color for Turks reflecting the color of sky. Kökturk means Blueturk or holyturk....... Some images of nationalist symbols The majority of Turks who live in Turkey are Oghuz but there are other Turkish tribes such as Volga-Bulgars / Crimean Tatars, Kipchak, Caucasian Turks and even Uighurs.
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Post by uygurkazak1988 on May 4, 2005 6:15:00 GMT -5
The sexual intercourse with the wolf thing has put me off at times. It's interesting that in the BBC documentary about Genghis Khan, the guy playing Genghis Khan refers to the Grey Wolf myth!
BTW are there any neo-kemalists or MHP sympathizers/supporters on this forum except me?
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Post by Meddish on May 4, 2005 6:43:21 GMT -5
RE:Just a few idiots have claimed someting like Kurds are mountain Turks but it has been understood as if all Turkish nationalists claim it. There is not something like this. Yes I know I was half-joking but have a look at the bottom section of this webiste for a serious disccusion on the matter. internettrash.com/users/pkk/a-Trk-Anadolu.html#languageRE:Kurds are different of course but in Europe when somebody commits a crime I would be very happy if they mark his ethnicity (Kurd or not) if he/she is Turkish citizen. In political matter Europeans seperates Turks and Kurds on the other hand if the matter is crime all criminals of Turkey became Turk. This is disgusting. Europeans' standarts are based on double standart. They are not mature...... Fair point! However in Europe Turkish Kurds and Turks get on very well it only seems there are problems in Turkiye.If I was a Turkish kurd I would embrace my Turkishness and forget about being a Kurd after all racially speaking 25% of Turkiye is Irano-afghan from assimilation with eastern Kurds. www.geocities.com/zakus_1999/Races.htmlRE:I have to correct one thing. Fez is not the traditional wearing of Turks. Fez has been brought in offical use in Ottoman Empire only in the 19th century until the end in 1920s. Yes I know it's a sign of Sunni Orthodoxy as you know the Ottomans where staunch defenders of Orthodoxy and it comes from a revolt I think in Egypt? when Sunni's dipped thier caps in the blood of heretics.
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Post by Circe on May 4, 2005 6:46:48 GMT -5
The sexual intercourse with the wolf thing has put me off at times. Exactly my thought! ;D The legend is nice, though I think it's interesting that wolf is considered to be a mystical/mythical animal, and that as such appears in many cultures (starting from Romulus and Remus, to the grey wolf of Slavic myths)... uygurkazak1988: Could you, please, answer my question regarding the use of the terms Turk and Turkic? Thanks!
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Post by uygurkazak1988 on May 4, 2005 6:59:28 GMT -5
The word Turk in Turkish and other turkic languages is inclusive of all the members of any turkic group all over the world. Technically it is the same in English, but in some definitions Turk just means people that live in Turkey( therefore Oguz).
I once again state that Oguz Turks aren't the only turks in the world. Turk should mean "member of turkic tribe, country or group" in every language, not just the Turkic Languages. Oguz Turks aren't the most favourable group of Turks in my opinion anyway, due to their impurity nowadays. Also, if the word "turk"'s definition is popularized as "member of turkic tribe, country or group" then the world will be more knowledgeable of the glorious turkic peoples.
also circe where are you from? are you greek?
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