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Post by mike2 on Jun 10, 2005 23:21:42 GMT -5
I have a question for the south Europeans. Do you consider Arabs as white or non white? My guess is that you consider them caucasian, but defenately not white. Provided they have no Veddoid, East African, or Mongoloid admixture, then I consider them white, yes.
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Post by Toasty on Jun 11, 2005 0:44:09 GMT -5
I've identified as white all my life. I'll be damned if some honkey loser is going to tell me I'm not a member of the white race simply because I'm not as ugly and pink-skinned as he is. What the heck Mike, so you're not mestizo after all? jk.
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Post by Salvador on Jun 11, 2005 6:38:48 GMT -5
yeah well, and how many other South- Europeans know this genetical details.
They don't have a clue. They simply look at the skin color and draw their conclusions.
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Post by Ponto Hardbottle on Jun 11, 2005 10:45:12 GMT -5
I am European. I don't think in terms of black and white. I consider all Europeans as European caucasoids. I don't think the pinkish tones or yellowish tones of different European skins relevent. I don't care if Greeks are olive skinned or Norwegians pinkies. I know there are Iranis and Levantines who look European, there are Berbers who look European, there are probably half Chinese who look European. So. They are the minority. Many Europeans are of mixed European origins and it is not new, for example Dante Gabriel Rossetti and had Mary Queen of Scots' adviser not been murdered there probably would have been plenty of Rizzios in Scotland today. Do I consider Arabs to be caucasoids or White? Depends on the Arabs. Lebanese, Syrians probably yes. Yemenis of bin Laden's kind, no. He is mixed. South Asia is one of the limits of the caucasoid race and many South Asians are mixed but mostly caucasoid. Most people are ignorant Salvador. Most people have not studied racial differences or anthropology or understand genetics. Being popular is not being correct or right. It is a difficult lesson for most people to learn which is that race has little to do with skin color, especially Americans. It is the first thing you learn in human biodiversity differences but it is still the main stumbbling block for many. Look how many "is this man White" threads. If you didn't know Salvador, many otherwise well educated people in the States think that Southern Europeans are not White because they have dark hair and yellowish skins. Just looking at skin color is very dumb.
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Post by Toasty on Jun 11, 2005 14:33:42 GMT -5
...many otherwise well educated people in the States think that Southern Europeans are not White because they have dark hair and yellowish skins. Just looking at skin color is very dumb. You know what's even worse Ponto, when these same educated people decide for themselves your race based on your name, especially your last name. For example, my coworker and friend looks ridiculously spanish and is very pale skinned, yet he is not white to people there because his last name is Borrego, however another friend of mine who is Greek, and has way darker skin tone than my other friend is considered irrevocably white.
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Post by lurker4now on Jun 11, 2005 14:56:09 GMT -5
Someone wrote Carmen Diaz instead of Cameron Diaz. Interesting mistake. I lived in the States until my early adulthood, and I must have lived in a white cloud as I never heard of this Portuguese/Spanish/Greeks...aren't White as in caucasoid stuff. Never heard the idea that certain caucasoids are White and others not before this board. It is interesting that whenever pictures of White people are posted as examples, the people posted look borderline caucasoid in their facial looks like that redheaded woman. Odd isn't. A troll from Norway with rabbit teeth who can sing and some strange person who could be Bjorke's grandmother. Is Ricky Lake Jewish? I think of her as Italian, Ricky Lago. Strange woman. I think what people think in their countries is okay, provided they don't try to export their oddball thinking abroad. And I have to say, my American friends, you have certainly been remiss in exporting your silly ideas of what is caucasoid or White abroad. Maybe try being a little thoughtful and discrete with your odd racist viewpoints. its not odd most people dont consider jews white either.
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Post by lurker4now on Jun 11, 2005 14:59:54 GMT -5
oh yea the berbers forget it they are black. most people in america would lable that.
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Post by Toasty on Jun 11, 2005 17:44:59 GMT -5
oh yea the berbers forget it they are black. most people in america would lable that. Most people in America don't know what Berbers are.
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Post by slick on Jun 11, 2005 22:23:32 GMT -5
If many Americans knew of any Berbers we would assume that they are in the same race as the Arabs and the Iranians. If they are not mixed like the Tuaregs and the Arabs of Egypt, Yemen, and Saudi Arabi, then yes they are as white as any European. I think most Americans know that Persians if not mixed are white but some believe that Persians are the same as Arabs. I am not one of them.
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Post by nordicyouth on Jun 11, 2005 23:21:06 GMT -5
Firstly, the preoccupation with Nordicism is found amongst 'generic' Whites outside of Europe with ancestry from all over that continent. Often, these Whites are Central-South European in terms of skin pigmentation, hair and eye colour, etc. Indeed, this is nothing new e.g. Hitler, Goering, Goebbels - who far from resembled the blonde and blue-eyed Nordic minority whose supremacy they espoused. The Nazis highlighted this unrepresentative cross-section of German society by inducting them into the SS and saturating their propaganda with them. And even then, Nordicism was subordinated to German supremacism - else invading England, Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, Czechoslovakia, the Baltics, etc. - would be counter-intuitive.
Secondly, it stands to reason then not to vilify, or insult Nordic peoples, but rather to recognize those advocating Nordicism. It is precisely those Americans with Central-South European ancestry from all over that have racial and/or subracial fixations due to their ancestry being so varied that their heritage is plain 'White.' No European thinks in those terms. Often these former also contain negligible Amerindian and African admixture. The members of this generic group of Whites (light brunette to moderate) not only advocate for Nordicism, but against it, seeking their roots as Nords, Meds, Aryans, etc. Indeed, many on this forum, no matter how knowledgeable have this problem. Nordicism, Medicism, Alpinism, etc., are all sides of the same coin (I realize a coin only has 2 sides).
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Post by Educate Me on Jun 11, 2005 23:35:22 GMT -5
alpinism?? examples please
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Post by mike2 on Jun 12, 2005 0:11:16 GMT -5
alpinism?? examples please Yeah, Alpine Supremacy. See any post by QVP on this board. It's really quite hilarious.
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Post by Ponto Hardbottle on Jun 12, 2005 1:19:44 GMT -5
...many otherwise well educated people in the States think that Southern Europeans are not White because they have dark hair and yellowish skins. Just looking at skin color is very dumb. You know what's even worse Ponto, when these same educated people decide for themselves your race based on your name, especially your last name. For example, my coworker and friend looks ridiculously spanish and is very pale skinned, yet he is not white to people there because his last name is Borrego, however another friend of mine who is Greek, and has way darker skin tone than my other friend is considered irrevocably white. I cannot say I have experience the same thing myself. I have a French type surname which is pronounced differently by Europeans and English speakers, but it doesn't look foreign. I have to say your coworkers are dickheads and wankers, sorry but that is how I see it. What you are saying is that being Spanish is being non caucasoid? I am quite open about my origins and ethnicity, and in Australia, some people pigeonhole you into some sort of stereotype. You know the thing. Italians and Greeks are hot blooded. Hungarians can't hold their temper. Swiss people are as bland as Gruyere cheese and totally humorless. Now I don't tell anybody about my background at all. I got sick of the stereotyping.
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Post by erudite on Jun 12, 2005 1:28:21 GMT -5
oh yea the berbers forget it they are black. most people in america would lable that. No most Americans would *NOT* call Berbers black. Stop exaggerating. The American racial classification is just that- an American system. Its no better or worse than racial classification in an other countries.
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Post by Gus Morea on Jun 13, 2005 13:39:00 GMT -5
That's how it is where I live. Most Blacks, Hispanics, mixed people I know don't consider southern/Eastern Europeans white. It's fun being Greek in all this. A Hispanic guy says to me the other day, "I f****n hate white people! I'm sure glad you're Greek." LOL Then when I'm among a group of whites they just assume I'm white and make racist remarks about every ethnic group under the sun. I was watching an episode about 5 years ago and I remember it was about all these guests who were supposedly acting too white for their race or whatever. Anyway, I just can't believe how silly the whole damn show was. What sticks out in my memory are 2 guests in particular. There was 1 black woman who said that her black friend was acting too white. When ricki asked if she was at all part white, the woman said no. She said "my friend has no white in her. She is 99% black and 1% Portuguese." I couldn't help but laugh...Portuguese aren't white? The second incident was even funnier. They had this really pale girl who was angry at her friend for dating in her words "a whiteboy". Well, it turns out the pale girl complaining was half Italian and half puerto rican. When asked to describe herself, she said "I have no white in me. I am half Puerto Rican and half Italian"! When I heard that I practically fell off my chair! Even worse....the audience actually bought it! This girl was a "person of color" in their eyes! WOW! And then of course I knew this Spanish girl who insisted that she was not a white girl! I can't get over stuff like this!
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