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Post by santana on Mar 10, 2005 0:32:31 GMT -5
i was taught taht egyptians were from a western civilization
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Hallam
Junior Member
Posts: 94
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Post by Hallam on Mar 10, 2005 1:01:50 GMT -5
Egypt is an African civ. It's culture and langauge autochthonous to Africa (most linguists in the field agree that proto-Afrasian is originally from the Sudan or perhaps Ethiopia).
ALthough people like Martin Bernal have argued that Egypt contributed greatly to Western society like the mesopatamian civs and Judaism, and therefore can be considered "western" like these other civ and cultures, the connection doesn't seem as great as those other cultures and civs. Egypt did influence the west but mostly indirectly.
I am not making racial claims but cultural ones. It certainly is probably true that most ancient Egyptians were a mixture of what we would consider Black and "caucasiod" populations, but Egypt is most certainly a native African civ.
I am not an expert here and am just offering my opinions from my readings of linguistic and athropology text books.
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Post by alexandrian on Mar 10, 2005 1:13:48 GMT -5
Egypt provided a lot of the basis for Western Civ, and although it is sometimes grouped with Greece and Rome, I think that that's not always the case. Egypt can be best described as a Near Eastern civilization, in the same group as the Sumerians, Assyrians, Minoans. Egypt and Sumer together provided the base upon which Western cultures built the tower, but I don't think they are "Western" per se. As for them being culturally African- they did have cultural similarities with Nubia, but those were similarities imposed by the Egyptians onto the Nubians.
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Post by Josh on Mar 10, 2005 1:56:11 GMT -5
Egypt can be best described as a Near Eastern civilization, in the same group as the Sumerians, Assyrians, Minoans. Minoans? Weren't Minoans Greek?
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Post by Igu on Mar 10, 2005 12:50:19 GMT -5
Egypt is an African civ. It's culture and langauge autochthonous to Africa (most linguists in the field agree that proto-Afrasian is originally from the Sudan or perhaps Ethiopia). Because you are very intelligent and because afrasian comes from ethiopia, why don't you include assyrians, Israelis, arabs, phoenicians, chartaginians in your "african culture"? Also i would like to know what is an african culture. By the way, tell me how you got to the conclusion that old egyptians were a mixture of black and white? 3araboo: -I have never heard that, and no country in the world says so, therefore I conclude that either you have never been to school or you are lying. -Egypt was a caucasoid north african/near eastern civilization, europeans did not contribute in any way to the rise of egypt, neither negroids/nubians did. zero contribution have been done by both groups. -the only ones who want to steel egypt's history are the black-americans.
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Post by santana on Mar 10, 2005 13:26:06 GMT -5
dude i am egyptian so frankly nobody needs to teach me what my civilization is .. however.. in college i was taking a western civil class and the first civ taught was the egyptians.... why would i lie ... i dont believe egypt was an african civ
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Post by imhotep06 on Mar 10, 2005 13:49:27 GMT -5
I don't want to make it seem like I am picking on you, but you make the most unscientific and unhistorical statements. Those who don't know any better might believe you. Ta-Merry is the result of thousands of years of Nubian history and not the other way around. There own testimony and the Greeks confirm this as has already been shown to you. You still haven't dealt with the Qustul Inscense Burner evidence showing a "pre-dynastic" Nubia showing Heru, the bark of Ra and a king with the White Crown of Upper (today's southern) Kmt, hundreds of years before Aha Menes and the "first" dynasty. You also have to deal with 7000 BCE Basalt vase found by WF Petrie in 'Prehistoric Egypt" pg. 27 that shows the Mdw Ntr inscription "fraction one-half". It shows that the preDynastic Nilotics had writing, mathematical notation and with the jar itself, a liquid volume measure. You also seemed to miss the Ishango bones from Zaire that date from 23, 000 BCE that shows the SAME doubling system of arithmetic that the later "Egyptians" used. I could write a Book on just how Kmt is an African civilization in every sense of the word. Please stop making these erroneous statments. Kmt didn't just flop out of the sky. Please people go to school and study. Egypt provided a lot of the basis for Western Civ, and although it is sometimes grouped with Greece and Rome, I think that that's not always the case. Egypt can be best described as a Near Eastern civilization, in the same group as the Sumerians, Assyrians, Minoans. Egypt and Sumer together provided the base upon which Western cultures built the tower, but I don't think they are "Western" per se. As for them being culturally African- they did have cultural similarities with Nubia, but those were similarities imposed by the Egyptians onto the Nubians.
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Post by Human on Mar 10, 2005 13:59:18 GMT -5
Zaire and Uganda. prime numbers recorded (possibility); or calendar. a very long time ago (20000 before Christ). interesting stuff. famous best seller Simon Singh writes about it: www.simonsingh.net/The_Ishango_Bone.html
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Post by Igu on Mar 10, 2005 14:03:08 GMT -5
I don't want to make it seem like I am picking on you, but you make the most unscientific and unhistorical statements. Those who don't know any better might believe you. Ta-Merry is the result of thousands of years of Nubian history and not the other way around. There own testimony and the Greeks confirm this as has already been shown to you. You still haven't dealt with the Qustul Inscense Burner evidence showing a "pre-dynastic" Nubia showing Heru, the bark of Ra and a king with the White Crown of Upper (today's southern) Kmt, hundreds of years before Aha Menes and the "first" dynasty. You also have to deal with 7000 BCE Basalt vase found by WF Petrie in 'Prehistoric Egypt" pg. 27 that shows the Mdw Ntr inscription "fraction one-half". It shows that the preDynastic Nilotics had writing, mathematical notation and with the jar itself, a liquid volume measure. You also seemed to miss the Ishango bones from Zaire that date from 23, 000 BCE that shows the SAME doubling system of arithmetic that the later "Egyptians" used. I could write a Book on just how Kmt is an African civilization in every sense of the word. Please stop making these erroneous statments. Kmt didn't just flop out of the sky. Please people go to school and study. Another looser and lier, you are getting many!! look man, we just share the same continent: Africa, the rest, we are like the day and the night, good bye looser ;D
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Post by imhotep06 on Mar 10, 2005 14:25:06 GMT -5
Please brother/sister what every you are, come with some evidence. I can tell by your response that you haven't read anything, that you don't have anything intelligent to say, and you are having a hard time constructing sentences because you have a lack of evidence to support your obvious, erroneous assumptions that Kmt was/is not an African civilization by every sense of the word. I gave you my sources. You can read about the insense burner by the cat who actually studied here www.homestead.com/wysinger/qustul.htmlIgave you Petrie's work already and for the Ishango bone evidence: De Heinzelin J, "Ishango," Scientific American , June 1962, pp 109-11 You can also read: Neubauer O, Exact Sciences in Antiquity, New York: Dover Publishings, pp 17, 22 Also Marshak A, The Roots of Civilization, Mount Kisco, N.Y: Moyer Bell, 1991 pp 27-30 I will need you to actually do some studying before showing your rear in public. Another looser and lier, you are getting many!! look man, we just share the same continent: Africa, the rest, we are like the day and the night, good bye looser ;D
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Post by Springa on Mar 10, 2005 14:33:07 GMT -5
There was no such concept as "western" back then, and it's not valid to anything before the greeks.
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Post by mike2 on Mar 10, 2005 15:14:03 GMT -5
Western Civilization is the same as European civilization. It began with the Minoans, who were not Hellenes but certainly influenced them more than the Egyptians did. I guess it could be argued there is a Minoan-Egyptian connection, but I won't go there.
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Post by Faelcind on Mar 10, 2005 15:14:43 GMT -5
The short answer is no, egyptian culture was very distinct from the greco roman complex that is at the root of western civilization. Egyptian cultures seems very exotic and foreign to me, egypt was a north east african civilization with ties to more southerly african civilizations and to near eastern civilizations. Racially they were intermediate to with the with affinities to neareastern's northwest africans and east africans. The Racist claims of trolls like Igu that the AE's were unrelated to the last group is just so much nonsense.
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Post by alexandrian on Mar 10, 2005 19:31:22 GMT -5
The short answer is no, egyptian culture was very distinct from the greco roman complex that is at the root of western civilization. Egyptian cultures seems very exotic and foreign to me, egypt was a north east african civilization with ties to more southerly african civilizations and to near eastern civilizations. Racially they were intermediate to with the with affinities to neareastern's northwest africans and east africans. The Racist claims of trolls like Igu that the AE's were unrelated to the last group is just so much nonsense. There is no proof to show that they were related to East Africans at all. Until you show me any genetic study that comes to that conclusion, I don't believe you
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Post by alexandrian on Mar 10, 2005 19:32:35 GMT -5
Imhotep...all you do is follow me around giving me bullshit circumstantial evidence from unprofessional afrocentrist sites trying to prove Egypt is connected to AFrica. I've shown you evidence time and time again in many a post just read it next time. I don't care if some blacks in Zaire practiced primitive math some time ago...they clearly had no connection to egypt
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