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Post by Cerdic on Mar 8, 2005 9:39:21 GMT -5
I do not understand your point of view, Jojo. Unfortunately, you are one of the many who have been misinformed and politically influenced by the Anglo-Saxon population of Britain. The WASPS like to claim that Britain is a solely Anglo-Saxon nation and they have no regard for the Romans that actually colonized the country they call home. To them, British history starts with the invasion of the barbaric Germanic tribes. The descendants of these beastly savages tend to intentionally forget and belittle the Roman influence in their country. Everytime they say the name of their nation, however, they must remember that they are saying a Roman word. Not entirely true, it isn't forgotten that Constantine the Great was first hailed emperor in York for instance, or that the emperors Septimius Severus and Constantius Chlorus died in Britain. Britain also gave the Roman world a number of emperors including Albinus, Carausius, Magnus Maximus and Constantine III. Just a cursory look at the British popular archaeology TV programme "Time Team" will reveal how the Roman period in Britain's past is by far the most interesting for the majority of viewers. Also those beastly savages adopted Latin civilisation and Christianity with great fervour and effect. The English of the Early Middle Ages paid a special tax, Peter's Pence, which went directly to the papacy for use in the city of Rome itself. Many Anglo-Saxon kings, including Alfred the Great, visited Rome. Alfred could read and write Latin, and translated Boethius' 'Consolatione Philosophiae' and Pope Gregory the Great's 'Pastoral Care' into Old English. Between Boethius and the 12th century renaissance the English monk Bede (8th century) is universally hailed as the finest writer of Latin prose. In fact the British and Irish kept their Latin pure when on the continent Latin was becoming more Italian or French in pronunciation and spelling. In the 8th and 9th centuries Britain and Ireland exported Latin civilisation and Christianity back to the continent. British and Irish monks re-vitalised learning in the moribund monasteries of the Frankish Empire. An English missionary, Wilfrid (St Boniface), converted large parts of Germany and Alcuin of York was Charlemagne's most trusted advisor and a major force behind the Carolingian renaissance and the inception of the Holy Roman Empire.
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Post by Crimson Guard on Mar 8, 2005 15:14:56 GMT -5
<<Scotland was originally known as Alban, this was used as a war cry, "Alban!" by Scots soldiers into the Late Middle Ages and by Highlanders even later. >>
Middle Ages,Sorry that doest prove a thing.
Caldonia was used for Scotland by the Romans.
The other information is not correct as its opionionated and theoretical at best.
Londinium is latin,which london is named,no Celtic word comes close.
And What does the Gladius Hispanicus have to do with the discussion? Its name is still latin and the sword was iself modeld on the Greek sword.
<<The Romans adopted craft items and arms and armour wholesale from the Celts who had a metallurgical technology way ahead of the all the Mediterranean civilisations.>>
This is clearly a very bad joke,not true.
<<The Roman soldier of the Late Republic and Principate was virtually kitted out with Celtic borrowings: the gladius hispaniensis adopted from the Celtiberians, the mail coat, the long shield (scutum), and the montefortino, coolus and imperial gallic and italic helmets. Even the embellishments on the kit and weapons were usually derived from Celtic enamelling skills. >>
The names for these helmets are not Roman in origin. Archaeologists named them based on their appearnace or where they were first unearthed.Its still of Roman design.
Chain mail was not invented by the Celts.The earliest European examples known date to the 2nd century BC, with the oldest examples being Etruscan.Do your history.
The celts useually fought naked or in rags by the way.
Yes Gaul was rich in iron Ore,thats partly the reason why the Romans conquerored the land.The Gauls had some talented metal workers who where put to work by the Romans mass producing their armor once gual become part of the Empire and Frabicias's where set up .But the armor designs where all strictly Italian,and mostly influenced from Greek designs.
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Post by Crimson Guard on Mar 8, 2005 15:33:48 GMT -5
<<Not entirely true, it isn't forgotten that Constantine the Great was first hailed emperor in York for instance, or that the emperors Septimius Severus and Constantius Chlorus died in Britain. Britain also gave the Roman world a number of emperors including , Magnus Maximus and Constantine III.>>
How did Britain give to the Roman World,when it was already Roman Britain which was part of the Roman Empire to begin with.You make no sense.
And those where already Latinized forigners,they where not ethnicaly Briton's.
Magnus Maxius was a Spaniard,Septimus Severus was Tunisian,Constantine the Great was a Thracian.Constantine III was not a Briton,his origins though obsure point to an Italian origin.
I think your reading far to much of Geoffrey of Monmouth's Romantic high fiction.Which he himself was a Romano-Britishphile.
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Post by Human on Mar 8, 2005 15:38:48 GMT -5
England was for a long time a remote barbaric uncilivized province of the Roman Empire. Before the Romans they were truly barbaric. Do you know of any English buildings except stone buildings? Any tales? Any literature? Any writing Any higher morality? They enjoyed human sacrifices... Where were their Newtons back then ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ? This only proves how random history is, and how our developments are not necessarily related to our ethnic background...
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Post by Crimson Guard on Mar 8, 2005 15:43:01 GMT -5
Even Stone Henge was built by the Neolithic Invaders from the Middle East/North Africa and not the Druids which they liked taking credit for.
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Post by Faelcind on Mar 8, 2005 15:57:44 GMT -5
As allways your wrong Crimson spectacularly so, your so biased its not even funny and yet your constantly accuse others of being so read the history yourself nobody claims that most british or celtic names came from latin its ridiculous. Celt comes to us from greek but was almost certainly borrowed from some celtic tribes name for themselves its meaningless in greek, while Celt was very common name element among the gauls Vercingetorix's fathers name was Celtius. Stonehenge was not built by neolithic invaders henge building was a uniquely atlantic phenomenon. The romans did learn how to make chain mail from the celts, and the Spatha was adapted from the celtic long sword.
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Post by Tautamo on Mar 8, 2005 16:12:17 GMT -5
As allways your wrong Crimson spectacularly so, your so biased its not even funny and yet your constantly accuse others of being so read the history yourself nobody claims that most british or celtic names came from latin its ridiculous. Celt comes to us from greek but was almost certainly borrowed from some celtic tribes name for themselves its meaningless in greek, while Celt was very common name element among the gauls Vercingetorix's fathers name was Celtius. Stonehenge was not built by neolithic invaders henge building was a uniquely atlantic phenomenon. The romans did learn how to make chain mail from the celts, and the Spatha was adapted from the celtic long sword. hey why not call indo european indian!;D lol the word celt has its origins within the community of the people who called themselfs "hidden people" give me some time and ill post the reference to it from REAL professors/scollars and not crazy theories like crimson lol
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Post by Tautamo on Mar 8, 2005 16:15:09 GMT -5
As allways your wrong Crimson spectacularly so, your so biased its not even funny and yet your constantly accuse others of being so read the history yourself nobody claims that most british or celtic names came from latin its ridiculous. Celt comes to us from greek but was almost certainly borrowed from some celtic tribes name for themselves its meaningless in greek, while Celt was very common name element among the gauls Vercingetorix's fathers name was Celtius. Stonehenge was not built by neolithic invaders henge building was a uniquely atlantic phenomenon. The romans did learn how to make chain mail from the celts, and the Spatha was adapted from the celtic long sword. Romans did learn alot from the celts chain mail long swords and other things (ill post the stuff which makes it hard for crimson to refute. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by Faelcind on Mar 8, 2005 16:18:24 GMT -5
Thanks Amadis with finals coming up I haven't been upt to my usually link finding, fool refuting self.
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Post by Tautamo on Mar 8, 2005 16:27:44 GMT -5
Crimson
lol! talk about learning about history.
Thats not the reason why they wanted to conqueror Gaul.
(ill post maps of the iron rich regions)
Its was not strictly Italian becuase no Italy existed! lol
(just had to add that
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Post by captainusa1 on Mar 8, 2005 18:28:16 GMT -5
<<The Celtic and Germanic people were incapable of having civilizations without the help of the superior Meds. >> yeah...Your right they didnt! Sounds to me that you 2 are jealous and need to invent your own version of history to feel better.The Romans only very seldomly Latinized certain pre-existing names,the Vast Majority came from their own invention.Their no argueing this.. No, I'm not jealous. I'm not an insecure Med supremacist. I give credit to *ancient* Greece and *ancient* Rome, but the so-called barbarians had their own forms of civilization too, and please show me where I invented my "own version of history". I do know current events, and the countries with the best quality-of-life statistics are populated by descendants of Scandinavian "barbarians".
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Post by Cerdic on Mar 9, 2005 11:19:19 GMT -5
England was for a long time a remote barbaric uncilivized province of the Roman Empire. Before the Romans they were truly barbaric. Do you know of any English buildings except stone buildings? Any tales? Any literature? Any writing Any higher morality? They enjoyed human sacrifices... Where were their Newtons back then ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ? This only proves how random history is, and how our developments are not necessarily related to our ethnic background... Silbury Hill, the largest man-made mound in Europe, look it up it's epic in scale. The great hill-forts such as Hod Hill and the many megalithic monuments. The Romans were civilised by the Etruscans and they in turn by the Greeks and the Greeks by the Minoans - take your pick. The Romans buried a Celtic man and woman alive, and also a Greek man and woman, in the Forum at a time of national hysteria, they weren't so lily-white on the sacrifice front. Local tales would include the Mabinogion, Tain, and Beowulf all well worth reading - in translation.
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Post by Cerdic on Mar 9, 2005 11:34:01 GMT -5
<<Not entirely true, it isn't forgotten that Constantine the Great was first hailed emperor in York for instance, or that the emperors Septimius Severus and Constantius Chlorus died in Britain. Britain also gave the Roman world a number of emperors including , Magnus Maximus and Constantine III.>> How did Britain give to the Roman World,when it was already Roman Britain which was part of the Roman Empire to begin with.You make no sense. And those where already Latinized forigners,they where not ethnicaly Briton's. Magnus Maxius was a Spaniard,Septimus Severus was Tunisian,Constantine the Great was a Thracian.Constantine III was not a Briton,his origins though obsure point to an Italian origin. I think your reading far to much of Geoffrey of Monmouth's Romantic high fiction.Which he himself was a Romano-Britishphile. I said Britain gave the Roman world the emperors I named, not that they were necessarily of British origins. In all cases the emperors were elivated to the throne by the acclamation of the army in Britain. Nothing is known about Constantine IIIs origins, his magister militum Gerontius was a Briton, however, and he proclaimed his probable son Maximus Augustus in Spain when he broke with Constantine. Emperor Maximinus was described as being of mixed British and German parentage. Constantine the Great was probably Illyrian, he certainly minted coins inscribed "Virtus Illyrici."
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Post by Cerdic on Mar 9, 2005 11:55:49 GMT -5
<<Scotland was originally known as Alban, this was used as a war cry, "Alban!" by Scots soldiers into the Late Middle Ages and by Highlanders even later. >> The other information is not correct as its opionionated and theoretical at best. Londinium is latin,which london is named,no Celtic word comes close. And What does the Gladius Hispanicus have to do with the discussion? Its name is still latin and the sword was iself modeld on the Greek sword. <<The Romans adopted craft items and arms and armour wholesale from the Celts who had a metallurgical technology way ahead of the all the Mediterranean civilisations.>> This is clearly a very bad joke,not true. <<The Roman soldier of the Late Republic and Principate was virtually kitted out with Celtic borrowings: the gladius hispaniensis adopted from the Celtiberians, the mail coat, the long shield (scutum), and the montefortino, coolus and imperial gallic and italic helmets. Even the embellishments on the kit and weapons were usually derived from Celtic enamelling skills. >> The names for these helmets are not Roman in origin. Archaeologists named them based on their appearnace or where they were first unearthed.Its still of Roman design. Chain mail was not invented by the Celts.The earliest European examples known date to the 2nd century BC, with the oldest examples being Etruscan.Do your history. The celts useually fought naked or in rags by the way. Yes Gaul was rich in iron Ore,thats partly the reason why the Romans conquerored the land.The Gauls had some talented metal workers who where put to work by the Romans mass producing their armor once gual become part of the Empire and Frabicias's where set up .But the armor designs where all strictly Italian,and mostly influenced from Greek designs. Gladius hispaniensis means "Spanish-sword" models for the ancestor of the later Roman sword have been found in Celtiberian archaeological contexts in Spain. The gladius was most definitely of Celt-iberian origins, the Romans replaced their Greek inspired swords with it. The Greek shortsword most definitely did not develop into the Roman gladius. The Celtic prototypes of all the most famous Roman helmet types can be easily traced. The Montefortino was a direct borrowing, though the Romans added typically Italic cheek-guards. The Coolus type is a version of the Celtic "jockey-cap" style and the Imperial Gallic and Italic types were adapted from the pre-existing Celtic Port and Agen helmets. The names are modern but the origins of the various types can all be traced unambiguously in the archaeological record. Chain mail is shown on a number of pre-Roman Celtic sculptures. The Latin word for a chariot was borrowed from Gaulish Celtic - "carrus" - showing how indebted the Romans were to Celtic wheel-making technology. The Romans and Greeks agreed that the Celts were fastidious about their appearance, some Celts fought naked probably for religious reasons, though even naked they wore their golden or bronze torc neck-rings and armlets. Nobles and the warrior-class would have worn mail and had helmets.
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Post by Cerdic on Mar 10, 2005 5:36:24 GMT -5
Ireland and Egypt could be said to be united because St. Patrick was converted to Christianity by Egyptian monks, and it was he who freed Ireland from British tyranny and oppression. It was the other way round. St Patrick (Patricius), a Romano-Briton from either NW England or Wales was kidnapped by Irish slave-raiders. At the time it was the Irish who were the aggressors they were actively carving up portions of western Britain into Irish kingdoms. Archaeological, written and epigraphic evidence shows that the Irish colonised western Scotland (Dal Riada in the Argyll area) North Wales (the LLeyn peninsula is a record of the Laigin of Leinster who settled it), South Wales (all of Dyfedd) and parts of the Cornish-Devon peninsula. The Late Roman and post Roman British authorities combatted the Irish invasions by moving British tribes (or parts of them) who still had a good reputation as warriors to the Irish colonised areas. Thus the Votadini chieftain Cunedda was moved from what is now the Edinburgh area into Wales and part of the Cornovii tribe from the area of Powys, Shropshire and Staffordshire were moved to Dumnonia where they gave their name to Cornwall.
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