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Post by alexandrian on Feb 23, 2005 22:26:33 GMT -5
He has a point. The Hebrews and Phoenicians (Canaanites) were essentially the same people. Their differences had more to do with religion, Jews were monotheistic and Phoenicians were polytheistic. Sub-Sharan ancestry in the Arabian Peninsula very common. East Africans and Arabs have been mixing for thousands of years. But didn't Jews say they were children of Shem and Canaanites were children of Ham? About Arabs, I know that there's a lot of negroid admixture in southern Arabia, but to call Arabs an essentially negroid-semitic mix is, I believe, misleading. I mean, if you look at some Arab royalty, there aren't many perceptible Negroid features.
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Post by mike2 on Feb 23, 2005 22:30:50 GMT -5
But didn't Jews say they were children of Shem and Canaanites were children of Ham? That's what it says. The Hebrews clearly saw a difference between themselves and the Canaanites, whatever the case may be.
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Post by yigal on Feb 23, 2005 22:36:02 GMT -5
Acourding to jewish Sources
the Jews Decend from Abraham whos parents where from terach(present day Charan in kurdistan) and his parents moved to Ur farther south, the bible says the cananites where of ham but also then mentions other peoples as seperate from canaanites and then again those same people as canaanites, it is belived acourding to Rashi and Rambam that the peole called canaanites who are the son of ham where a North african people who conquered part of the land from indigionous semites but adopted language and culture and later assimilated(and acourding to some this same thing happened with the hebrews since its unlikely they spoke hebrew before entering canaan since hebrew is a canaanite dialect)
basically the bible uses canaanite in diff contexts at diffrent times to include several groups in that area with same language and similar culture
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Post by mike2 on Feb 23, 2005 22:44:53 GMT -5
Yeah, it's certainly possible the Canaanites were ethnically heterogeneous. I even considered Aram might have had a hand in the racial character of pre-Abrahamic Palestine.
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Post by Buddyryvall on Feb 23, 2005 23:51:00 GMT -5
I ghot you. They invented the 22 letter alphabet, that Phoenicians and the rest of the Semites used. #1- The Phoenicians did NOT invent the alphabet, they took or copied the idea from the ancient Proto-Sinaitic Egyptian alphabet dating to circa 1800 BC. As I already pointed out, the Greeks took or copied that idea of the alphabet. You say Greeks took or copied that idea of the alphabet from Phoenician, The Greeks already knew of the idea of an alphabet, ever heard of Linear B and Linear A. This was a script which was written during the 2nd millennium B.C. in Minoan Crete. The Greeks did Not simply copy the Phoenician semi-alphabet. They enhanced it. Unlike Greek, the Phoenician alphabet only had letters for consonants. When the Greeks adopted the alphabet, they found letters representing sounds not found in Greek. Instead of throwing them away, they modified the extraneous letters to represent vowels. The most notable change, compared to its predecessor, the Phoenician alphabet, is the introduction of vowels, without which Greek — unlike Phoenician — would be unintelligible. The Greeks also wrote from left to right. Greek also introduced three new consonants, appended to the end of the alphabet as they were developed. The consonants were to mainly to make up for the lack of aspirates in Phoenician. Remember the western alphabet (Latin) is derived from Greek and ultimately based upon Egyptian hieroglyphs. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by yigal on Feb 25, 2005 0:27:29 GMT -5
actually early greek alternated from left to right and right to left line by line with reveresed letters
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Post by Ashurbanipal on Feb 25, 2005 3:23:54 GMT -5
YIGAL IM SHOCKED!
How can you call it "K---stan" when you know it is ASSYRIA! Harran is an ASSYRIAN city! This is like calling Israel "Palestine", Im disappointed!
There is no Kurdistan and never will be, if it is created then it is an insult to mankind, history, and to the STILL EXISTING INDIGENOUS Assyrians.
***if you were only making a reference, it would be appreciated if you do not acknowledge them or this crime of usurping our land. You are our brothers, dont forget that! Shlama/Shalom
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Post by Anja on Feb 25, 2005 16:19:10 GMT -5
Not exactly. Celts used to live in Austria. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) but didn't celts also used to live in southern germany...and besides, germany has been so regionally mixed up within itself in the past...
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Post by Anja on Feb 25, 2005 16:22:59 GMT -5
I imagine so. Many Irish people have English surnames. Does anyone know what kind of name Hickey is? One of my ancestors who came here from Ireland had that surname. from ancestry.com (Dictionary of American Family Names) 1. Irish (Munster): Anglicized form of Gaelic Ó hÍceadh ‘descendant of Ícidhe’, a byname meaning ‘doctor’, ‘healer’. 2. English: from a pet form of Hick. yeah, i know this message is kind of late, but nevertheless, ancestry.com surname database is a great reference. www.ancestry.com/search/SurnamePage.aspx?sourcecode=13304&html=b&fn=&ln=hickey&submit.x=0&submit.y=0
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Post by Josh on Feb 25, 2005 23:46:18 GMT -5
No problem. Interesting info. I'll have to check that site more often.
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Post by regularGuy on Feb 26, 2005 4:31:50 GMT -5
A lot of lebanese arnt "genetically" arab but if you consider the modern defenition of arab as being someone who speaks arabic and is of arabic culture then lebanese are for the most part arab.
i dont reckon the ancient phoenicians were same people as the ancient jews!!!
The probably "native" people of lebanon like me dont resemble jews at all!!!
Lots of southern european countries have phoenician influence in their bloodline. Phoenicians reached southern spain, cyprus, sicily, malta. EVEN BRITAIN!!! EVEN BRAZIL!!!!
If phoenicia was in a more easily defendable area i reckon it would have grown to be an even better civilisation than it was!!!!
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Post by Solomon on Feb 26, 2005 16:05:24 GMT -5
i dont reckon the ancient phoenicians were same people as the ancient jews!!! The probably "native" people of lebanon like me dont resemble jews at all!!! Actually, differences between Jews and Lebanese are negligible. Populations genetics places them pretty close to each other. Malta is the only country in Europe with significant Phoenician ancestry. Spain and Italy has such a small portion, it's not even worth mentioning. Cyprus isn't even in Europe. It wasn't so much their location as it was that their military. Phoenicia was a trading empire surrounded by military empires. It was inevitable.
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Post by yigal on Feb 26, 2005 21:44:12 GMT -5
no, idiot they arent close ![>:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/angry.png) closest pops are kurds ure making Jews and canaanites to be the same when Abraham is from Eye-rack! i mean heck where genetically closer to anatolian turks and Armenians than Lebanese and even farther from palies
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Post by regularGuy on Feb 27, 2005 1:55:30 GMT -5
Malta is the only country in Europe with significant Phoenician ancestry. Spain and Italy has such a small portion, it's not even worth mentioning. Cyprus isn't even in Europe. Well, the extent to which southern spain, sicily, malta have phoenician blood is soon going to be revealed. See an issue of National Geographic a couple of months ago (yes, a proper source!) I suspect it will be pretty small but significant. Lebanese meds are NOT the same people as jews!!! Us lot look different. I've always thought cyprus was in europe. Nevermind.
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Post by Solomon on Feb 27, 2005 2:18:50 GMT -5
no, idiot they arent close ![>:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/angry.png) closest pops are kurds Relax. I said Jews and Lebanese cluster closely, not that they were the closest people to Jews. 'Eye-rack'? It doesn't matter weher Abraham was from. He could have migrated from Uganda for all I care. The point is the Hebrews mixed with the Canaanites. We're close to all of them.
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