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Post by Josh on Feb 12, 2005 22:28:24 GMT -5
to the relation between Irishmen and Englishmen? That is, that the former and later speak the same language, but they don't consider themselves the same ethnic group?
(Sorry that the topic was worded badly, but the limited amount of space in the Subject necessitated it.)
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Post by Melnorme on Feb 12, 2005 22:29:17 GMT -5
Mmm...
More like the relationship between Austrians and Germans if you ask me.
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Post by Josh on Feb 12, 2005 22:33:29 GMT -5
Mmm... More like the relationship between Austrians and Germans if you ask me. But Austrians and Germans are decended from very similar Germanic tribes and are nearly physically indistinguishable, while the Lebanese are decended from Northern Semites, which differ a lot from the peninsular Arabs. And didn't both the Irish and the Lebanese have their languages imposed on them, whereas Germans and Austrians always spoke German?
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Post by Melnorme on Feb 12, 2005 22:41:38 GMT -5
And didn't both the Irish and the Lebanese have their languages imposed on them, whereas Germans and Austrians always spoke German? Not exactly. Celts used to live in Austria. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by buddyrydell on Feb 13, 2005 2:58:58 GMT -5
Don't modern Irishmen have considerable English ancestry, especially in eastern Ireland?
I always thought the Irish were basically a blend of the pre-Celtic Atlanto-Med settlers, Celts, Vikings, Normans, and English. The English themselves are of a very similar mix, only they also had some Roman influence.
What do you guys think?
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Post by Faelcind on Feb 13, 2005 3:32:30 GMT -5
Yeah the Irish of the pale(the area around Dublin and the most populous in the country) have singificant english componet to their ancestry, wexford and waterford to you'll see lots of names like Butler, Baker and Smith in both areas. Most of the Rest of the ireland has as much viking ancestry as english as far as I know. The problem with distinguishing the irish and english components is that most of the west and north of England is predominately UP atlantic genetically as well, and had similar(atlanto med Phenotype) were the settlers of the pale came from is important to consider. It seems to me that considerable portion of them were of the same germanic type that is common in eastern England.
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Post by buddyrydell on Feb 13, 2005 3:39:20 GMT -5
Yeah the Irish of the pale(the area around Dublin and the most populous in the country) have singificant english componet to their ancestry, wexford and waterford to you'll see lots of names like Butler, Baker and Smith in both areas. Most of the Rest of the ireland has as much viking ancestry as english as far as I know. The problem with distinguishing the irish and english components is that most of the west and north of England is predominately UP atlantic genetically as well, and had similar(atlanto med Phenotype) were the settlers of the pale came from is important to consider. It seems to me that considerable portion of them were of the same germanic type that is common in eastern England. Thanks Faelcind for the description. However, I've always thought that the incidence of freckles was more noticeable in Ireland than England. Does that represent the greater impact of the Vikings? Also, that's interesting about the area from where the English settlers in Ireland came from. I've known some rather "Germanic-looking" Irishmen who resembled a basic Anglo-Saxon type.
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Post by Faelcind on Feb 13, 2005 3:42:38 GMT -5
Actually since freckles are most common in the british Isles I would suspect that the greater contnental and Scandinavian influence in England would have dampened it as opposed to Ireland were it was less changed. I suspect that the germanic looking types were probably eastern Irish. In the west I found that the Atlantic type was very predominant.
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Post by Josh on Feb 13, 2005 3:55:45 GMT -5
Don't modern Irishmen have considerable English ancestry, especially in eastern Ireland? I imagine so. Many Irish people have English surnames. Does anyone know what kind of name Hickey is? One of my ancestors who came here from Ireland had that surname.
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Post by Faelcind on Feb 13, 2005 4:01:53 GMT -5
Thats an ambigous one usually ey endings indicate an anglicization of gaelic names, this one is hard to figure the gaelic for I found to derivation from a quick google search have look for your self. Both are cool if you aks me.
[ftp]http://homepage.tinet.ie/~kthomas/names6.htm[/ftp]
[ftp]http://www.searchforancestors.com/surnames/origin/h/hickey.php[/ftp]
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Post by murphee on Feb 13, 2005 5:21:53 GMT -5
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Post by Springa on Feb 13, 2005 6:06:38 GMT -5
Austrians are similar to southern Germans, but aren't that similar to Northern Germans. But Austrians and Germans are decended from very similar Germanic tribes and are nearly physically indistinguishable, while the Lebanese are decended from Northern Semites, which differ a lot from the peninsular Arabs. And didn't both the Irish and the Lebanese have their languages imposed on them, whereas Germans and Austrians always spoke German?
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Post by Josh on Feb 13, 2005 22:06:54 GMT -5
That's the guy I was thinking of. My parents and siblings are mentioned on page 14, but it improperly lists my last name as McLean instead of Vaudrin-McLean, and the third guy mentioned is my half-brother, who is older than me or Jeff, his name is really spelled Emmanuel, he has a different mother than me or Jeff(a Mexican woman, he lives in Mexico), and his last name is Lazos Celis.
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Post by murphee on Feb 13, 2005 22:56:00 GMT -5
Josh, good to hear that your ancestor was on that website. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by Ashurbanipal on Feb 16, 2005 0:17:49 GMT -5
But Austrians and Germans are decended from very similar Germanic tribes and are nearly physically indistinguishable, while the Lebanese are decended from Northern Semites, which differ a lot from the peninsular Arabs. And didn't both the Irish and the Lebanese have their languages imposed on them, whereas Germans and Austrians always spoke German? Yes Josh, you nailed it on the head. Lebanese are descended from Phoenicians, which is a NORTHERN Semitic group which has a different language than Arab. They are both Semitic but not the same language. Also, Phoenicians use the 22 letter alphabet system (like Assyrians, Jews, and Arameans) Arabs have more letters in their alphabet and is different.
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