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Post by IfTheLightTakesUs on Feb 4, 2005 18:13:14 GMT -5
They wear style, they play a very good thrash-M and their lyrics are lustful, sure they don't play satriani... as the majority of the bands you listen to! the music of burzum is very baisc though we like it. complexity is not the key. I didn't say anything about complexity or anything, I can't even stand self-indulgent music like satriani. All I'm saying is it's not exactly a quote worth quoting, you know?
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Kame
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Post by Kame on Feb 4, 2005 18:23:46 GMT -5
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Post by Igu on Feb 4, 2005 18:28:01 GMT -5
I didn't say anything about complexity or anything, I can't even stand self-indulgent music like satriani. All I'm saying is it's not exactly a quote worth quoting, you know? lol! you know, when I couldn't speak/understand english every single word seemed to me as Dazzling! especially when I don't understand the word, But now when I read Metal lyrics, I find them ridiculous ! But I still try to keep my innocence, don't kill that little drop!
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Kame
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Post by Kame on Feb 4, 2005 18:39:47 GMT -5
So what exactly is your view on "blackness"? I used the one-drop rule in the context of how people are viewed in america, I understand europeans and others see it defferently and I'm inclined to lean towards the non-american view of race. All I said was if the one-drop rule was applied to egpyt, they would be "black" so as to emphasize the pervading influence of black africans in egyptian society.
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Kame
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Post by Kame on Feb 4, 2005 18:48:43 GMT -5
![](http://www.imagemonster.org/getimg/0000000000_senejemfam.jpg) Not black? ![](http://people.hofstra.edu/faculty/martha_hollander/GalleryPictures/FullSizedImages/Egyptian/QueenTiy.jpg) not black? ![](http://www.imagemonster.org/getimg/tutankhamen.jpg) Sure he's not black? looks like my african-american cousin
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Post by eufrenio on Feb 4, 2005 19:21:28 GMT -5
So what exactly is your view on "blackness"? There´s no "blackness": there are only populations that can be described as "Black" or negroid. Physical anthropology and genetics are more relevant when defining who is or who isn´t Black than popular ideas about race. What´s the point of using alien categories ( like the US one-drop rule) to different situations and wholly different parts of the world? Let´s say we applied the one-drop rule in reverse: one drop of White blood makes you White... Then you, Kame, and all "Black" Americans would be White by this definition! ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) I´m sure you won´t agree... My point is, why do you call yourselves Black? Defining an ethnic group is a complex matter.
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Post by BioMan on Feb 5, 2005 9:35:26 GMT -5
After viewing both sides of the argument, I must say that Kame seems to be much more credible and actually giving evidence out.
Of course that could change if the other side provides any evidence. So far though I believe that ancient Egyptians have some African blood in them.
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Post by eufrenio on Feb 5, 2005 10:39:32 GMT -5
To Kame and Bioman and Darkstarr: How do you explain the following evidence, a stele ( stone column inscription that serves as a marker) forbidding blacks from entering the Pharaoh´s domain:
(quoted in: Sarich and Miele; Race , Westview, Cambridge, 2004, p.35 )
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Post by Springa on Feb 5, 2005 11:02:59 GMT -5
As far as discussions about Egypt being black go, Kame gave pretty good arguments. He's by far the most credible defeder of this thesis I've seen here. But he said at least one absurd thing: "I hate when people people say it's "afrocentrist" to claim egypt, no more afrocentric than it is eurocentric for whites to claim ancient greece."
Although I think it's ridiculous for anyone to "claim" anything other than what they've actually achieved themselves, the comparison between Egypt and Greece is stupid, since Greece is not only an unmistakingly and overwhelmingly ethnically European country, but it's also the cradle, the birthplace of European/Western civilization/culture and influenced all that came later in that continenent. The same can't be said about Egyptians and Black Africa by any means. And I'm not saying anything bad about Black Africa. I'm just saying that while Greece has obvious cultural, linguistic and even genetic ties to Europe in general, Egypt is not linguistic or particularly culturaly related to most of sub sharan Africa (west of the nile), let alone genetically. While Greeks are, objectively, factually, a caucasoid people, Egyptians were most likely a mixed nation, ranging from caucasoid/mediterranean types to actual negros in some region and varying types of mixed people. That's why his comparison is absurd.
People are always showing statues and paintings to prove Egyptians were white or black. You'll find a caucasoid looking statue to every black looking one, and even more mixed/n.o.t.a. looking statues if you're honest about it. So, the most reasonable thing, and probably the right thesis is that Egypt was not by any means a racially homogeneous nation and if it was, it was something in between or outside the black/white dichotomy.
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Post by visigodo on Feb 5, 2005 12:16:46 GMT -5
Good point eufrenio, this piece of evidence also refutes the idea of the lack of blacks inside Egypt. Therefore it is reasonable to conclude that the ancient Egyptian civilization as that of the U.S.A, had a portion of SSA in its population and had contact with other SSA nations. It can also be reasonable to conclude that blacks can have a valid claim with the success of that civilization, no matter if they were considered the lowest of class in that ancient civilization. This also applies to former black slaves here in the U.S., they too are responsible to a degree for the success of this nation.
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Berter
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Post by Berter on Feb 5, 2005 14:43:50 GMT -5
To Kame and Bioman and Darkstarr: How do you explain the following evidence, a stele ( stone column inscription that serves as a marker) forbidding blacks from entering the Pharaoh´s domain: (quoted in: Sarich and Miele; Race , Westview, Cambridge, 2004, p.35 ) Great finding, Eufrenio. This evidence is your KO, Kame !. I'm pretty sure that Kame is simply Darkstarr repeating himself. dodona.proboards35.com/index.cgi?board=racesoc&action=display&thread=1105111711I find it also quite strange when a new member supports a given side (usually the troll or loser side) in an inflamed debate. I call this : Darius' technique ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) . I seriously think that : Bioman=Kame=Darkstarr...(endless list ;D).
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Berter
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Post by Berter on Feb 5, 2005 16:13:27 GMT -5
![](http://www.bium.univ-paris5.fr/sfhad/vol7/img/gd/02-04.jpg) Hmm looks sorta like this guy ![](http://www.selamta.net/Afar%20man.jpg) Listen, "whites" or dark whites or whatever you call them don't have a monopoly on those features. Besides I did'nt say Egypt was completely black, I said it was atleast predominantly black or mulatto, ofcourse west asians lived there. Do you really think that this guy is completely black/east african !? . His features are partly arabid. Plus, his sabre is a proof an arabic/yemenite influence. Ramses' hair is the proof of his caucasoidness! Post pics!
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Post by Igu on Feb 5, 2005 16:26:14 GMT -5
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Post by Igu on Feb 5, 2005 16:37:00 GMT -5
Craniofacial morphology Genetics of Modern EgyptiansCavalli-Sforza et al. (1994) compared populations from throughout the world using extensive genetic data. The North African populations grouped with West Eurasian (European, Middle East) populations rather than sub-Saharan Africans. Di Rienzo et al. (1994) studied the relationship of three samples (taken from Egyptians, Sardinians, and sub-Saharan Africans), using mitochondrial DNA and simple sequence repeats. In terms of genetic distance, the Egyptian sample was closer to the Sardinian sample than to the sub-Saharan African sample. Hammer et al. (1997) used seven different methods to compute population trees of world populations, using Y-chromosome data. All seven methods grouped the Egyptians with the non-African populations rather than with the sub-Saharan Africans. Egyptians' genetic profile resembles that of South Europeans more than the other regional groups in the study. Poloni et al. (1997). Egyptians and a few other African populations (Tunisians, Algerians, and even Ethiopians) showed a stronger Y-chromosome similarity to non-African Mediterraneans than to the remainder of Africans mostly from south of the Sahara. Bosch et al. (1997), using classical genetic markers, calculated Egyptians to be genetically very close to Mediterranean Asians and Europeans. (journal abstract) Genetics of Ancient EgyptiansScientists at the University of Cairo tested DNA from the remains of pyramid workers from 2600 BC, and found that the DNA of ancient Egyptians matches that of modern Egyptians. That is, the people living in Egypt now are essentially the same as the people living there thousands of years ago. (Read an excerpt from PBS's Secrets of the Pharaohs) Borgognini-Tarli and G. Paoli, 1982. The ABO blood type frequencies of ancient Egyptians showed no signs of differing significantly from that of present-day Egyptians. According to the authors, "the blood-group distribution obtained for Asiut, Gebelen and Aswan necropoles shows resemblances with the present leucoderm population of Egypt and particularly with its more 'conservative' fraction (the Copts, MOURANT et al., 1976)." pics of old egyptians: www.geocities.com/enbp/eg_pics.html
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Post by Faelcind on Feb 5, 2005 16:40:54 GMT -5
The differentation between SSA's and Caucasians is largerly caused by the Sahara Desert. It is the main barrier to Gene flow, but the nile is a bridge between the two regions and gene flow has always crossed it Egyptians to day just like three thousand years ago are intermediate physically, the further south you go the more like east africans they look while many on the medditerean coast are pure meds. If you look at their art they distinguished themselves from both Caucasoid middle easterns, NW africans and europeans and also from black SSA's. Look at this picture which represents a Syrian, Nubian, and Libyan and Egyptian respectively. ![](http://www.catchpenny.org/images/seti1a.gif) Claiming the AE were pure Negroid or Caucasoid is ridicilous they were some were in between middle easterner's and east africans in phenotype and genotype. West African Descended African americans Claiming the pyramids as their cultural legacy is as ridiculous as Northern European's claiming Greece and Rome's accomplishments as their own. Berbers claiming it as their legacy is is like Spainards claiming mesopotamia's accomplishments as their own. The only people who can claim they pyramids are Egpytians.
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