Sandwich
Full Member
La pens?e d'un homme est avant tout sa nostalgie
Posts: 208
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Post by Sandwich on Jun 23, 2004 8:56:30 GMT -5
Why? I thought we were talking about "the modern world"? What do France and Britain (clearly the major forces, culturally and scientifically) have in common? Race? Not really. Power? Yes. Liberalism. Yes, in their different ways. We really should work out whether we are talking about national cultures, race, economic systems or climatic zones.
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Post by geirr on Jun 23, 2004 9:19:58 GMT -5
I'm specifically referring to the USA and Northwestern European countries after the Industrial Revolution. Everyone tries to change those specific parameters in order to change the subject, or so it seems. Now it's Northwestern Europe, you found Spain on a map. welldone. ;D
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Post by galvez on Jun 23, 2004 14:18:36 GMT -5
Look, one thing I have realized is that discussions of this type are often initiated by Americans, who supposedly are mostly of Northwestern European background. I believe part of the reason is that America is dominant economically today and Americans really do believe they are the center of the world.
But America is culturally backwards. America, contrary to what Cap'n has asserted, has not produced writers or philosophers that rival those in Europe (whether of the North, South, East or West). In fact, Cap'n's restricting Western Europe to merely "Northwestern Europe and America" shows his cultural bias.
America has not produced artwork that even approaches that produced by the Italians and Spaniards. America has no churches or cathedrals that rival those seen in much of Southern and other parts of Europe: true masterpieces and the highest point of creative accomplishment.
There is also a tendency among some Americans to diminish the achievements of the Italians and even the Eastern European groups.
You cannot compare the Renaissance to anything in the U.S. or even Britain. You cannot place jazz, skateboards, skyscrapers, and MTV rap with the artistic movements noted by Geirr.
Americans, especially of the White Supremacist variety and with little or no accomplishments of their own, will think they are on top of the world, and will dismiss nations that have been indispensable to Western culture.
Very few top-notch Nordic or Northwest European writers espouse Nordicism. Usually this is limited to third-rate types, especially those wasting time posting on Stormfront and VNNForum.
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Post by xxx on Jun 23, 2004 14:38:26 GMT -5
There are a few good white sprinters too. So what? You have done nothing to disprove what I stated. Most honest and objective people would agree with me. You guys just do like the Arabs when you use the word 'honest' so frequently. Anyone knows that you use it to be most dishonest. What's childish and personal attacks? Saying that Your words expose your incredible retardness and that And, by the way, I mean no personal offense to you? Let me refresh your weak memory: So you are not only a very dishonest person but also a complete retard. And, BTW, I mean no personal offense to retards. Go back to elementary school and learn some very basic Geography before you tell anyone to work on his reading comprehensions. The ONE thing your dear US has given the world is the allowance for ignorant slobs like you to have a saying in public, and calling politically incorrect to put you in due shame. It is known as egalitarianism and it is wrong. And I'm simply making it right what is wrong.
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Post by galvez on Jun 23, 2004 14:49:33 GMT -5
Geography is not a political science. You're giving Americans on this forum a bad name by placing Spain somewhere other than western Europe. Your argument about the modern world being an Anglo/American one is equally fanciful. Oh, so I am not the only one who thought it was strange that Spain (which is one of the westernmost nations of Europe) was excluded from "Western Europe." It doesn't surprise me that Americans with poor geography skills like to denigrate nations they seem unable to identify on a map. I feel bad for the European and Australian posters here who have to deal with arrogant Americans who embarrass the nation in which I currently reside -- and on top of that, make assertions as to cultural superiority! The word "chutzpah" springs to mind.
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Post by xxx on Jun 23, 2004 14:52:34 GMT -5
I agree with you to a certain extent about art. It does seem like the best artists came from France, Italy, Belgium and the Netherlands. I'm not sure about the historical period after the Industrial Revolution. Spain has certainly contributed its fair share of artists. I must now give credit to the Scandinavian countries. They lead the world, including the USA, in most quality-of-life statistics. I don't favor their socialist systems and seeming abandonment of religion, but I must give credit where credit is due. BTW, your country just may have the most beautiful women in the world. As for architecture of another kind, I couldn't honestly say. The following was posted on another forum: And I found this one too. It's an abstract of the course contents for the subject The Economic History of Norway, c. 1850-2000 at the University of Oslo. With such misery on their backs and only a few years of simply doing well, one has to wonder what makes you say that the Scandinavian countries have anything to do with the modern world.
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Post by galvez on Jun 23, 2004 15:38:46 GMT -5
With such misery on their backs and only a few years of simply doing well, one has to wonder what makes you say that the Scandinavian countries have anything to do with the modern world. The articles you cited are interesting, and I will be sure to read them. The Scandinavian nations do have Ibsen and Munch: the former revolutionized the theater with his realism, and the latter painted some cool stuff. I think Scandinavian culture is pretty cool, but I am not going to be deluded into thinking that Nordics are mentally superior to other groups. Not even Cap'n supports this position, as he has made it clear he is not talking about subrace. However, the fallacy that the Nordic subrace is the most highly evolved and is therefore "superior" is the one espoused by Nordicists and similar types. Cap'n, however, is entitled to his views, and he has generally been civil. I do think, tho', that he is very American and Northwest European centered, and would gain more credibility by being a bit more consistent with his terms. I do think the economic power of the U.S. makes Americans think they are better than others in other areas. This is shortsightedness. I think Scandinavian culture is cool and I don't regard it as inferior.
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Post by xxx on Jun 23, 2004 16:12:32 GMT -5
I think Scandinavian culture is cool and I don't regard it as inferior. You think that Scandinavian 'culture' is cool and others think that African 'culture' is cool. Anyone is entitled to his own opinions. Personally, I've always admired many other cultures so different from mine. And, to be honest, I've never been impressed by Nordic paganism and mythology nor African animism and tale-tellers. Sorry. As for North American 'culture'... well, I simply consider it anti-culture. I've read some arguing that because of cold weather Scandinavians have not evolved cultures like other nations. And yet Russia is an example that cold weather is no impediment for it. Really, the same argument by which others claim that Africans have not evolved due to hot weather.
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Post by xxx on Jun 23, 2004 17:14:03 GMT -5
I make nothing. Read the sources. And I couldn't care less.
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Post by galvez on Jun 23, 2004 18:24:01 GMT -5
You think that Scandinavian 'culture' is cool and others think that African 'culture' is cool. Anyone is entitled to his own opinions. I believe what happens is that a small minority will trash an entire ethnic group -- a minority of very mentally unbalanced individuals, by the way -- and it can be tempting to attribute this behavior to the group this small minority claims to represent. Yes, it's tempting for me to start trashing Nordics because disgusting, repulsive and insecure Nordicists trash my people and their history, but for me to sink as low as them is to show I am no better -- and that I might as well just cease with these discussions. I believe that when a person is insecure, he will have a greater need to put others down for the sake of "equilibrium." I believe many White Nationalists, for example, feel the need to denigrate Black people because they feel Blacks are "stealing" their women (not all, but many). I also feel that some Nordicists have a personal axe to grind with Southern Europeans, and the reasons can be numerous. I mean, some might have gotten beaten up in school by a "Med" and have been resentful ever since. One thing I do know: normal, well-adjusted Nordics do not trash Meds, and in fact laud Med cultures in books and in television programs. Being educated forces you to be immersed in Southern European cultures and contributions. To be honest, I used to believe some of the things Cap'n said, because I was very American-centered, but as I read a little more I realized that the Nordicists were way off, and in fact Nordic giants have always admired the Mediterranean people, and in fact borrowed heavily from them. Look at Shakespeare: many of his plays have the setting in Italy. (The guy also wrote a play dealing with interracial sex). The more you read the more you realize just how strange Nordicism is. I have to admit it bugs me that a few Americans are claiming they are superior culturally. And frankly, I don't care if my nation hasn't been on the top of lists. What grates on my nerves are people who don't know anthropology acting as if people who have become civilized in only the last few hundred years are better than all other groups on the planet. But these types can be refuted in debate without the need for personal attacks. And again, they are not supported by 99.9% (as Dienekes pointed out) of those of Central and Northern European descent.
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Post by captainusa1 on Jun 23, 2004 18:25:40 GMT -5
Why? I thought we were talking about "the modern world"? What do France and Britain (clearly the major forces, culturally and scientifically) have in common? Race? Not really. Power? Yes. Liberalism. Yes, in their different ways. We really should work out whether we are talking about national cultures, race, economic systems or climatic zones. You're certainly welcome to discuss any and all of the above. I limited my posts to Northwestern Europe and people of NWE descent in the USA after the Industrial Revolution. It was in response to an insulting post. I made the mistake of using the word, "Nord", in a colloquial way at the start. I should have been more specific from the start, but I didn't know that my initial reply would start an avalanche of responses.
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Post by captainusa1 on Jun 23, 2004 18:28:13 GMT -5
Now it's Northwestern Europe, you found Spain on a map. welldone. ;D I should've said that from the start. What is Spain BTW?
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Post by captainusa1 on Jun 23, 2004 18:50:11 GMT -5
Mynnyd, you are as blinded by bigotry and hypocrisy as any member of Skadi. Some of you Meds whine like little girls when they make disparaging remarks about Med countries, but you relish posting your dishonest, insipid remarks about non-Med countries. Someone fails to lick your "superior" (what a joke) Med boots, and you react like toddlers. I never made any insulting comments. I merely told the truth about life after the Industrial Revolution. I even complimented ancient Med culture, but you ignored that in order to create a strawman because that was easier than dealing with the fact that, quite frankly, the USA and Northwestern countries were superior civilizations after the Industrial Revolution. You know that's true. That's why you went on the attack. My suggestion is to go sip your espressos at your local coffee houses, pretend to be superior to Americans, and make self-serving speeches about the glories of ancient Greece and Rome. You can also fabricate flimsy ego-massaging reasons about why the USA is a successful country. Perhaps you can insult the messenger as some kind of "Nord" caricature because you don't like the message. That's easier than dealing with reality.
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Post by captainusa1 on Jun 23, 2004 19:07:43 GMT -5
Oh, so I am not the only one who thought it was strange that Spain (which is one of the westernmost nations of Europe) was excluded from "Western Europe." It doesn't surprise me that Americans with poor geography skills like to denigrate nations they seem unable to identify on a map. I feel bad for the European and Australian posters here who have to deal with arrogant Americans who embarrass the nation in which I currently reside -- and on top of that, make assertions as to cultural superiority! The word "chutzpah" springs to mind. FYI, I know that Spain is geographically western. It's also geographically southern. I should have said "northwestern" countries from the start, okay? You're making something out of nothing in an attempt to insult Americans. Also, it's beyond ironic that you accuse anyone of "chutzpah" for making claims of cultural superiority. This is nothing but a Med mutual admiration society.
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Post by galvez on Jun 23, 2004 19:18:18 GMT -5
FYI, I know that Spain is geographically western. It's also geographically southern. I should have said "northwestern" countries from the start, okay? You're making something out of nothing in an attempt to insult Americans. Also, it's beyond ironic that you accuse anyone of "chutzpah" for making claims of cultural superiority. This is nothing but a Med mutual admiration society. There is no need for me to charge at you over your claims that America is culturally superior: this is a peculiar view that is not accepted by many, many people. Indeed, I am sure many Europeans (regardless of subrace) would be offended by your comments. By the way, I do not condone the attacks on Scandinavia on this thread. Also, I do not believe that Mediterraneans are "superior," but I do believe that many of the Mediterraneans who contribute to these boards are brighter than many of their detractors. This cannot be a "Med mutual admiration society" because we have a South Asian and Jewish moderator, and in fact I have abandoned Medicist views because I saw that Medicism, like Nordicism, has no basis in reality.
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