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Post by nordicyouth on Jun 12, 2004 10:36:26 GMT -5
What are your thoughts?
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Post by Graeme on Jul 3, 2004 7:07:44 GMT -5
Mind you I live in Australia. I think that non European immigration, that needs to be defined in a pan European way, must be strictly controlled. Five year work permits without the ability to renew for another five years. No recognised marriages with local citizens, any children born to local women and the foreigners cannot be citizens, must be placed in an orphanage or repatriated to the foreigner's homeland. Strict enforcement of residency restrictions and deportation for any breach no matter how minor. Close all legal avenues to stay in the country.
They are some ways of curing the problem. There are enough multiracial/multicultural countries already where non Europeans can apply for permanent immigration: USA, Canada, Australia, NZ, Central and South American countries and even Africa.
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Post by nordicyouth on Jul 3, 2004 21:27:28 GMT -5
I fully agree. I mean, let's face it Europe is inherently diverse, I hate that bullshit about it needing non-whites to spice it up. It's just USA multiculturalists projecting their solution to race-relations on the rest of the West.
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Post by Italian Stallion on Jul 11, 2004 17:34:35 GMT -5
Multiculturalism is a band-aid solution to increasing short-term economic growth in a developed country that doesn't have a satisfactory natural birth-rate. Government, under pressure from Big-business, need to have more consumers in the economy to generate more sales and taxes. I guarantee, If natural birthrates were high enough, no developed nation would ponder the idea of changing its identity/cultural demographics through multiculturalism.
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Post by alex221166 on Jul 11, 2004 19:18:11 GMT -5
I am surprised to have been the only person answering "increase the borth rates". As someone already said, if the birth rates are high enough, there's no need for mass immigration.
Assimilation is also crucial (both at a cultural, and to a lesser extent at a genetic level).
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Post by recluse on Jul 11, 2004 19:42:02 GMT -5
I don't care if the immigrants are non-white or not. What bothers me is that immigrants come from a failure of a country to a success of a country and bring their failure habits with them. It bothers me that excessive immigration disrupts communities and overburdens police departments, school systems, etc. And it bothers me that cheap immigrant labor knocks natives out of the market.
The best solution is cut taxes, deregulate, etc. so that more people can start businesses without needing cheap labor to avoid bankruptcy. That also means more jobs. Also, control but don't eliminate immigration and penalize those (including businessmen) who are accomplices in illegal immigration.
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Post by Italian Stallion on Jul 11, 2004 21:17:55 GMT -5
Actually, the problem is that TOO much deregulation and privatization is going on. When governments start selling off state-owned industries in order to open up the market, it produces competition between new companies, which requires more manpower ... therefore needing more workers, which the population isn't able to produce fast enough... hence immigration.
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Post by Italian Stallion on Jul 11, 2004 21:27:38 GMT -5
Sadly, sometimes I think the only way to truely ensure that the European race does not go extinct, is to see the collapse of free-market capitalism and replaced by a form of communism that actually works... Russian communism failed because they couldn't compete with american arms-race. If the Americans didn't pressure the communist so much, it possibly wouldnt have collapsed. Capitalism does make life interesting and enjoyable, but the consumer culture that it has become has made it impossible for people to have their cake and eat it too.... ie, enjoy capitalism, and then have a family when they are good and ready... which may be too late when they finally "grow up"!!!
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Post by Italian Stallion on Jul 12, 2004 8:23:28 GMT -5
actually, a socialism system maybe the way to go. Also, I know it doesn't make us any better than the muslim fanatics that we are trying to keep out of Europe, but women's lib has to be scaled back! Too many women spending their best reproductive years trying to "be like men". But, then again, the problem arises as to whether a single income from the man could support a whole family nowadays!!!
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Post by recluse on Jul 13, 2004 2:50:36 GMT -5
luchluchluch, You raise good points. And if you don't mind, I'll summarize them as a labor shortage and Western decadence.
Taking the second one first, I'd say that there is no good cure apart from some sort of jolt that causes a deep spiritual or existential recognition that people and family come before material things.
But I would say that a greater source of decadence than consumerism is the modern dole which along with the high taxes and regulations is a mainstay of the welfare state. I'm not talking about the traditional dole which provided a modest assistance to the poor during slack times and to the elderly and those too sick to work all of the time. I'm talking about paying able-bodies individuals to sit around, drinking beer and watching television. I could go into many reasons that this is a moral catastrophe, but suffice it to say that it fuels Western decadence and creates an artificial labor shortage. And I believe that the current unbalanced immigration situation is another symptom of the failure of the welfare state.
Concerning feminism, the high overhead imposed by welfare state policies on small business and workers, makes it less feasible that non-feminist couples can have the wife stay home and raise children.
The labor shortage creates an unwholesome political alliance between consumers, multicultural leftist politicians and small business. I want to divide and conquer that alliance so that more sensible immigration policies are possible.
So I stand by my point that economic liberalization is necessary.
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Post by Dienekes on Jul 13, 2004 5:04:02 GMT -5
The main problem with modern Europeans is that they have replaced Christianity and tradition with utilitarianism and the idea of 'progress'.
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Post by pconroy on Aug 24, 2004 18:12:19 GMT -5
actually, a socialism system maybe the way to go. Neither Communism nor Socialism work - the only way to go is Free Market Capitalism Look at Ireland, my home country, it has transformed itself into the wealthiest country in the EU (as measured by GDP per Capita) and the 5th wealthiest in the world: ;D ;D ;D www.studentsoftheworld.info/infopays/rank/PIBH2.htmlThis is definately the way to go. I welcome immigrants, and would like Ireland's population to go from under 4 million to 20 million in the next 50 years. Sure it wouldn't be the same place as my ancestors Ireland, but so what, neither is any place else. So I say YES to multiculturalism, competition and pure capitalism - anything less is delusional!
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Post by eufrenio on Aug 24, 2004 19:31:22 GMT -5
This is definately the way to go. I welcome immigrants, and would like Ireland's population to go from under 4 million to 20 million in the next 50 years. Sure it wouldn't be the same place as my ancestors Ireland, but so what, neither is any place else. So I say YES to multiculturalism, competition and pure capitalism - anything less is delusional! So, it´s delusional not to want your country changed into something different altogether? What good is economic progress for a country if it changes the population itself? The way I see it, it´s only Europe and European-descended nations that are undergoing ethnic changes.
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Post by pconroy on Aug 25, 2004 10:41:26 GMT -5
So, it´s delusional not to want your country changed into something different altogether? No, its delusional to think that your country can remain the same, locked in a time warp. That's the kind of inward thinking that Al-Qaida promotes, and it is what ruined the Arabic lands of the Middle East. It is also the policy that ruined the Chinese civilization - which was centuries ahead of the West, until they went into a deep freeze for a few hundred years. Economic progress by definition means change - you can't have progress without change. So if you don't want to change, then you won't have economic progress. Why do you think America is so successful, it's because it is not concerned about remaining the same, it welcomes change, innovation and ambitious, dynamic and entrepreneurial people - regardless of race or ethnicity. Yes, as it's these countries which are the drivers of the international economy, and so its to these countries that would be emigrants look. You may point out that Japan doesn't seem to be welcoming immigrants and they have a successful economy, and you'd be right. But they are suffering as a result, and their economy has been in reverse for much of the last 2 decades. One of their most successful young entrepreneurs by the way is Masayoshi Son - who is the son of Korean immigrants. The way I see it, you have a choice, you can have robust growth and wealth creation, along with immigration and multiculturalism, or you can become a country of Luddites and live in the past, and suffer economic and cultural stagnation.
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Post by pconroy on Aug 25, 2004 10:50:12 GMT -5
Another point worth mentioning is that with the advent of the "Knowledge Worker" and the Internet a huge portion of jobs, like Financial Services support, Computer Programming, Accounting and other service and operations type jobs, can be "Outsourced" to other countries. It is happening in all of these industries in America today. This removes the need for these people to immigrate at all.
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