king
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Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 5, 2005 10:36:56 GMT -5
I admit that I lost the debate because I could not find much info on the nubian wives. And the info I did find was from an afrocentric website. I know now not to use those websites. But the thing is I am new to the whole internet thing so I have to get use to how things are. As for what anodyne said about the "DNA" studies Hear is another "DNA" study: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14748828This is genetic evidence shows the genetic diversity in Modern egypt caused by immigrants and its genetic origins with tropically adapted African people. Here is the full text of the article. www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3659/is_200210/ai_n9126114 As far as the Dna extraction from the Pyramid workers is claimed that University of Cairo conducted this study. Since this study was never published in any book or publication we don't know exactly the specifics of the study. Usually such reserch is conducted in peer reviewed journals. However, if such data suggests that modern Egyptians are related to the ancient only confirms that modern Egyptians have the lineages of the ancient Egyptians. The following does not signify that modern Egyptians necessarily have the phenotype of the ancient Egyptians. From what I see so far No "DNA" study has pinpointed the race of the ancient egyptians. And people seem to be getting different results. If this is all that people who claim Ancient egypt is caucasoid have then it just shows that a caucasoid ancient egypt is very slim to none. I hope anodyne re posts and refutes any what I have found of these "DNA" studies. I would like to know anodynes opinon on these.
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king
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 5, 2005 10:39:14 GMT -5
I admit that I lost the debate because I could not find much info on the nubian wives. And the info I did find was from an afrocentric website. I know now not to use those websites. But the thing is I am new to the whole internet thing so I have to get use to how things are. As for what anodyne said about the "DNA" studies Hear is another "DNA" study: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14748828This is genetic evidence shows the genetic diversity in Modern egypt caused by immigrants and its genetic origins with tropically adapted African people. Here is the full text of the article. www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3659/is_200210/ai_n9126114 As far as the Dna extraction from the Pyramid workers is claimed that University of Cairo conducted this study. Since this study was never published in any book or publication we don't know exactly the specifics of the study. Usually such reserch is conducted in peer reviewed journals. However, if such data suggests that modern Egyptians are related to the ancient only confirms that modern Egyptians have the lineages of the ancient Egyptians. The following does not signify that modern Egyptians necessarily have the phenotype of the ancient Egyptians. From what I see so far No "DNA" study has pinpointed the race of the ancient egyptians. And people seem to be getting different results. If this is all that people who claim Ancient egypt is caucasoid have then it just shows that a caucasoid ancient egypt is very slim to none. I hope anodyne re posts and refutes any what I have found of these "DNA" studies. I would like to know anodynes opinon on these.
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Terp
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Post by Terp on Nov 5, 2005 16:07:39 GMT -5
Variation of dental traits like incisor shoveling, Carabelli's cusp, etc., further attests to a Northern affiliation of ancient Egyptians. Ancient Egyptian samples represented by Lisht, Kharga and Hesa fall into the same phenetic space occupied by recent Berbers and Bedouin and so forth. source: Joel D. Irish, Diachronic and synchronic dental trait affinities of Late and post-Pleistocene peoples from North Africa. 1998; Homo 49:138-155. Characteristic high- and low-frequency dental traits in sub-Saharan African populations. American Journal of Physical Anthropology. 1997; 102:455-467.
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king
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 5, 2005 22:10:36 GMT -5
I have to say that this was a good try. As far as those cranial-dental maps,. Any similarities that Egyptians have to Europeans all of a sudden counts as a close relation. If Melanesians and Australians were included in that map, they would cluster close to what they labeled as "Sub-Saharan" samples. And we all know despite their similarities, Melanesians and Australians are the most genetically distant from Africans. Cranial-dental maps are garbage.
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king
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 5, 2005 22:14:11 GMT -5
If you think that ancient egyptians are caucasoid your going to need more than this to convince me. I am up for the truth. I will except valid proof. So far from what I have seen and the evidence I put forward. I am still convinced they are Negroid. Like I said if anybody has any valid proof that they are caucasoid I will change my mind. So far they are Negroid.
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king
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 6, 2005 10:15:31 GMT -5
Egyptians were like sub-Saharan Africans, sorry to say. I think this arguement is done. Nobody has put any valid proof that they were caucasoid. The Nile Valley would have been primarily and initially populated by indigenous Africans, who happen to naturally be tropically adapted. And we all know what tropically adapted africans are. Negroid.
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Post by Miguel Antunes on Nov 6, 2005 12:09:33 GMT -5
Any valid proof? What about simply looking at egyptians today? Even better...what about looking at the way Ancient Egyptians depicted themselves most of the time? That´s right...caucasians.... No one is denying a negroid influence on AE, specially in Upper Egypt but they were mainly caucasian like they are still today... Of course..one could argue that in pre dinastic time they could be more negroid...but when talking about AE one speaks about the Dinastic Period...what happened before is of little consequence.... And I might had that usualy depictions of Ancient Egyptians classified as negroid by some...usually look Ethiopian and we all know their ethnogenesis....even that genetic study you showed said that...
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Post by Mike the Jedi on Nov 6, 2005 13:14:40 GMT -5
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Post by Miguel Antunes on Nov 6, 2005 15:06:32 GMT -5
Yes...that´s what I was saying....making a case for AE being like ethiopians...a caucasian berberid /negroid nilotid hybrid I would venture or perhaps even an unique race...an intermediary type...is much more plausible..in every sense...but no....they had to be full negroids from West Africa to please afrocentrists...how plausible is that really?
So..to conclude...was there negroid influence in AE? Of course... Were they the main component of AE in pre dinastic times? Probably....specially when talking about Upper Egypt... Were they the main componet in the Dinastic Period? Probably not..specially as time went by... Does an Egyptian from Upper Egypt with negroid features has any claim on the AE civilization? Of course yes... Does an Egyptian from Lower Egypt...with pure caucasian features has the same claim? Again yes.... Does an European can claim the same? Probably not, even being Medditeranoid like me...
And finally...does an African-American or its counterpart in West Africa has any claim whatsoever regarding AE? OF COURSE NOT! Except that both live/lived in Africa and probably descend from the same group of humans thousands and thousands of years ago...
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Post by Mike the Jedi on Nov 6, 2005 15:23:46 GMT -5
Yes. It's really a game of elimination. If the Egyptians were partly black African, they would have to have been either Nilotid or Aethiopid. And they certainly weren't the former if their depictions of themselves have any say in the matter, so that kindly narrows it down.
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king
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 6, 2005 16:08:31 GMT -5
I never said that ancient egyptians, were like west africans. The ancient egyptians are east africans. Never did I say they were like west africans. as for pics:
What ever black you think they were The ancient egyptians were negroid. Those pictures do not look like caucasoids to me. And one thing is I am not afrocentric. Black is Black. You can call them nilotic or what ever it still does not change the fact that they were negroid. You cannot look at those pictures and say they are caucasoid.
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king
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 6, 2005 16:20:06 GMT -5
Go to freemaninstitute.com/RTGpix.htm to see the pictures. And you tell me if they are caucasoid.
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Post by Miguel Antunes on Nov 6, 2005 17:31:21 GMT -5
Go to freemaninstitute.com/RTGpix.htm to see the pictures. And you tell me if they are caucasoid. Really...King...if AE were fully negroid...what is the reason for the difference the way AE depicted themselves and the way they depicted their Nubian, fully negroid neighbours? I am not denying that in some depictions AE give a somewhat negroid feeling, specially ethiopian look...like Mike just showed...but even in those pictures i have no doubt in my mind that they are mainly caucasoid...wich shows.... Let´s see...black skin? No...altough it is dark I will grant you that...but so are many caucasoids... Prognathism? No.... Nappy hair? No...Although it seems to be kind of curly..many caucasoids have it too...but it could be sign of negroid blood as well.... Big lips? No... The nose is kind of small but looks straight... So..as I said...there are many Ethiopians, Somalis, Sudanese, East Africans in general with these traits...but they are very Europid probably trough admixture.. I will grant you a mixed AE, like Ethiopia specially in Upper Egypt and in earlier times...but never a fully negroid one...the evidence against it is to big... About that site...despite of it being quite afro centric...even giving one of the shitiest interpretations I have ever seen of that painting from Ramses III tomb....(So AE always represented themselves as black...as equal of other blacks in africa...even with the same clothing....I guess all those depictions of AE ONE SEES ALL THE TIME, EVERYWHERE, ARE FAKE!!!!!!!!!! INSTEAD THEY ARE INDO-EUROPEAN!!!! YEAH! Because we know IE went to AE right? Wait...I get it....it´s part of a conspiracy against the poor black man made by the Evil IE white man...) most of the pictures it has there shows caucasoid people...with some exceptions of course...most being Nubian...I would have thought an Afrocentric site would have done a better job..but alas... In fact..some of the pictures they have there even shows those traditional AE depictions..wich are supposedly IE since AE were black as any other black african....LOL! Really...i see blackness in very few of them...except that those statues were carved in black stone....i guess that makes them black =P Again..i do not deny a negroid element in AE and that element shows...but it was never the main component of AE....as most of the negroid AE look more like Ethiopians who are mixed people... So...AE were a mixed people...with caucasian becoming predominant as time went forward and as one went north... www.freemaninstitute.com/RTGpix.htm
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king
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 6, 2005 20:26:30 GMT -5
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king
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Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 6, 2005 20:33:30 GMT -5
You say the evidence is too much for an Negroid ancient egypt. I would like to see this evidence.
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