king
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Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 3, 2005 21:05:36 GMT -5
Translation: I could not find any information refuting the nubian wives, so I come back with me tail between my legs and take cheap shots hoping I can duck the issue of them being caucasoid, since I have no proof. I'm a sore loser who is now asking for info so I can save face.
I don't need to defend Diop you have not proven anything about his translations. Like I said earlier refute his translations all of them and then act like you done something.
If what I said about the nubian wives is false then find evidence to refute it. You will not find any. I know you tried.
The only thing silly is you who pretends to not care about egypt but then fights for it to be caucasoid with no PROOF.
What do you guys make of the Prophecies of Neferti?!!
nswt pw r iyt n rsy imny mAa xrw rn.f sA Hmt pw n tA sty ms pw n Xn nxn iw.f r Ssp HDt iw.f r wTs dSrt iw.f smA sxmty iw.f r sHtp nbwy m mrt.sn pXr iHy m xfa wsr m nwd
There is a king who will come from the south Ameny true of voice is his name. He is the son of a woman of the Land of the Bow, he is a child of the Heartland of Nekhen. He will take up the White Crown, he will raise up the Red Crown, he will unite the Two Mighty Goddesses, he will appease the Two Lord Gods, with what they desire. The field circuit is in his grasp, the oar in the jump.
According to the prophecies, the legitimate ruler who unites Egypt is a son of a woman of Ta Seti. Ta seti is nubia. What do you guys make of this. Still think egyptians thought they were different then the Nubians.
The 17th and 18th dynasty originated from southern Upper Egypt, and according to Ed Harris of X-raying the Pharaohs their features indicate Nubian ancestry!!
Ironically, both the 12th dynasty and the 17th & 18th dynasties fulfill the Prophecies of Neferti!!! Egyptologists like Kent Weeks suggest as even further proof that the royal women of these dynasties were Nubians is their unsually high status when compared to other Egyptian royal wives In Nubia, queen-mothers played very prominent roles in governing, and the significant influence that women of the 17th-18th dynasty such as Amose-Nefertari and even Hatshepsut may indicate a matriarchal Nubian custom
I hope this "helps". Try and argue any of these points. Like I said the only fool is you.
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Post by anodyne on Nov 3, 2005 21:45:14 GMT -5
"If what I said about the nubian wives is false then find evidence to refute it. You will not find any. I know you tried."
I didn't try. It's up to you to present them since you have them. Why should i go looking when you obviously have the source? For some reason you fear to post it.
"I don't need to defend Diop you have not proven anything about his translations. Like I said earlier refute his translations all of them and then act like you done something."
Yeah, plenty people have and they failed, too. Not worth wasting your time.
"The only thing silly is you who pretends to not care about egypt but then fights for it to be caucasoid with no PROOF."
I fight hard for truth. Do you want me to lie and say you're right just because you want to be right? I can't do that. I have principles. If someone says something that I believe is wrong I'll say so. Sorry if that hurts your feelings but you're wrong.
"What do you guys make of the Prophecies of Neferti?!!"
I think it's a prophecy. Now explain how this proves yoru earlier case that Ancient Egyptians were a Negroid civilization? take it step by step because I have no clue why you posted it. Maybe you just like being poetic.
"According to the prophecies, the legitimate ruler who unites Egypt is a son of a woman of Ta Seti. Ta seti is nubia. What do you guys make of this. Still think egyptians thought they were different then the Nubians."
Umm... first of all, who translated that? (sorry but you have become suspect so I have to question just about every translation you post) Second of all, how would that prove the Egyptians civilization was Negroid? I fail to see how you came to this conclusion. Maybe you can explain.
"According to the prophecies, the legitimate ruler who unites Egypt is a son of a woman of Ta Seti. Ta seti is nubia. What do you guys make of this. Still think egyptians thought they were different then the Nubians."
Lets take a look of those prophecies, sir.
"The 17th and 18th dynasty originated from southern Upper Egypt, and according to Ed Harris of X-raying the Pharaohs their features indicate Nubian ancestry!!"
Exclamation points are exciting and all but would you care to post that study here for everyone to take a gander? and I believe Ed Harris performed an X ray of those pharoahs in 1973. Has he done so more recently?
"I hope this "helps". Try and argue any of these points. Like I said the only fool is you."
No, this doesn't help. How about posting the actual information instead of always having to make me search for it. Since you have it at the tip of your fingers post it. You might not have the ability to upload photos but you certainly have the ability to copy and past a link.
Also, a pharaoh having sex with nubian women doesn't make Egypt a Negroid Civilization. The Sultan's harlem through out the years had cisserians (Spelling is way off) that doesn't mean the general population wasn't Turkish.
Keep dancing for me but don't get your hopes up. At some point I'll get bored with you.
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king
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 3, 2005 23:03:30 GMT -5
I don't know what more you want from me. All you did was talk. You did not refute any thing and you just kept on talking. I said the Nubian wives were the only foreign women to become Queens. If you have any proof that I am wrong show me the proof. You state that the Ancient Eyptians they were caucasoid yet I am still seeing no proof of this. You should not need my help since evidence refuting what I said is their. I mean the Ancient egyptians either did this or they did not.
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Post by Mike the Jedi on Nov 3, 2005 23:28:26 GMT -5
This Nubian women thing is interesting. Do you have a source?
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Post by anodyne on Nov 3, 2005 23:49:53 GMT -5
"don't know what more you want from me."
What you mean you don't know? I made it clear. I want a source. Link me up.
"All you did was talk. You did not refute any thing and you just kept on talking. "
Actually, I typed and I refuted your nonsense while you haven't refuted anything I've said. You just move on to some other "evidence" rather than stating how my criticisms are wrong.
"I said the Nubian wives were the only foreign women to become Queens. If you have any proof that I am wrong show me the proof."
Dude, you're probably are correct that some pharoah wives were black since Egypt at one point was invaded and conquered by people from the south long after Egypt was an old civilization. Yes, it's possible that black invaders brough their wives. And i'm sure previously they had Nubian concubines but this in no way proves that the civilization is Negroid. I made that clear in my previous post.
"You state that the Ancient Eyptians they were caucasoid yet I am still seeing no proof of this."
Yes, DNA tests are not proof. Some messed up busts are but not DNA tests!
"You should not need my help since evidence refuting what I said is their. I mean the Ancient egyptians either did this or they did not."
You're evading, sir. The so called "proof" you mention you can't link. Either you don't know much about it and heard from other people or you're afraid it won't stand up to criticism.
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king
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 4, 2005 10:09:00 GMT -5
That DNA study is one example and it was done by the University of Cario. Like I said earlier of course they are going to find Modern egyptians the same as Ancient. It was done by them what do you expect they are going to say. And like I said what do you expect from the not to find a link. If it was such valid proof it would be published all over the world and would end the debate. But since it is done only on lower egypt it was not that well recieved. So that is not proof your you can cling to that study all you want it does not mean much in the long run because other studies have been done also like keita's studies. Also for the X-raying the Pharaohs it's a book and I have looked on the web but I could not find any pages. I found this though: Written in the book X-raying the Pharaohs states that Donald Redford, a modern Canadian Egyptologist. . . . "believes Hatshepsut's attainment of the throne represents the final attempt in the Eighteenth Dynasty to establish a strong matrairchate in Egypt. He cites the unusual importance of earlier queens in this period --Tetisheri, Ahhotep I, Ahmose-Nefertari--as evidence of such a tendency, and here suggest that the influences for such a matriarchally determined order of succession might have come from Nubia. The possibility that the rulers of the Seventeenth Dynasty were themselves at least part Nubian".
James E. Harris, Kent R. Weeks, X-raying the Pharaohs, 1973, p. 135; 17th & 18th dynasty family tree Petrie, W.M. Flinders, The Making of Egypt, Sheldon Press, New York, 1939, p. 105:
Sudanese Dynasties:
"Scorpion king of the Anu [Aunu] culture".
"A breath of life came from the Sudan. This southern source was likewise the inspiration of . . ." the 1st, 2nd (Anu), 3rd [Sudanese], 4th, 5th, 12th [Sudanese] dynasties. "The 12th dynasty was undoubtedly descended from Amenemhat, the great vizier of the 11th dynasty. It seems, then, that he married the heiress of the Uah-ka family, as stated in the pseudo-prophecy, "A king shall come from the south whose name is Ameny, son a Nubian woman." She called her son by the family name Senusert, and he was the founder of the 12th dynasty, according to Manetho. The main sources of the 18th dynasty were Nubian and Libyan, depicted black and yellow, but not red of the Egyptians.
Ahmos Nefertari was one of their black queens. Her black strain seems to come through the Tao I and II ancestry. The 19th dynasty was a direct mixture of races." Petrie states: "Decay continued in a divided kingdom; Egypt seemed hopeless until a fresh Ethiopian invasion stimulated it, as in earlier instances". This was the beginning of the 25th dynasty.
See photo of kings Menes, Khasekhem and Djoser. Also the Gebel el-Arak Knife.
This is all I have so far but if you need more proof about the nubian wives I will get more.
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Post by anodyne on Nov 4, 2005 10:42:50 GMT -5
"That DNA study is one example and it was done by the University of Cario. Like I said earlier of course they are going to find Modern egyptians the same as Ancient. It was done by them what do you expect they are going to say. And like I said what do you expect from the not to find a link. If it was such valid proof it would be published all over the world and would end the debate. But since it is done only on lower egypt it was not that well recieved. So that is not proof your you can cling to that study all you want it does not mean much in the long run because other studies have been done also like keita's studies." Dude, I posted more than one DNA study. I also used the study that other dude used to point out how the sub saharan hapolyte were uncommon. What Keita tried to do was take Caucasoid Hapolytpes and state that they were actually Negroid. Ok, lets see, you don't believe the fine gentlemen at the University of Cairo because you think they have a bias. First of all, what is your proof of their bias? You have none. You say they're bias based on your own assumption. You don't have any actual proof. That's like me saying Diop is bias if I don't have any proof. But I do have proof of his bias. So I have cause to not take him serious. You on the other hand simply wave away the evidence because you make an assumption on intentions. Bascially, you don't like the evidence so you're finding excuses. "Written in the book X-raying the Pharaohs states that Donald Redford, a modern Canadian Egyptologist. . . . "believes Hatshepsut's attainment of the throne represents the final attempt in the Eighteenth Dynasty to establish a strong matrairchate in Egypt. He cites the unusual importance of earlier queens in this period --Tetisheri, Ahhotep I, Ahmose-Nefertari--as evidence of such a tendency, and here suggest that the influences for such a matriarchally determined order of succession might have come from Nubia. The possibility that the rulers of the Seventeenth Dynasty were themselves at least part Nubian". James E. Harris, Kent R. Weeks, X-raying the Pharaohs, 1973, p. 135; 17th & 18th dynasty family tree Petrie, W.M. Flinders, The Making of Egypt, Sheldon Press, New York, 1939, p. 105:" Look at the dates friend? 1939, 1973... oh, and that X ray done by Redford was done in 1967. The world of has come a long way since 1967. You have anything in the past 10 years? "A breath of life came from the Sudan. This southern source was likewise the inspiration of . . ." the 1st, 2nd (Anu), 3rd [Sudanese], 4th, 5th, 12th [Sudanese] dynasties. "The 12th dynasty was undoubtedly descended from Amenemhat, the great vizier of the 11th dynasty. It seems, then, that he married the heiress of the Uah-ka family, as stated in the pseudo-prophecy, "A king shall come from the south whose name is Ameny, son a Nubian woman." She called her son by the family name Senusert, and he was the founder of the 12th dynasty, according to Manetho. The main sources of the 18th dynasty were Nubian and Libyan, depicted black and yellow, but not red of the Egyptians." You're getting your info from the same website. www.homestead.com/wysinger/ancientafrica.html"Ancient Africa's Black Kingdoms" No wonder you don't want to post a link. But don't worry, I did it for you because I like to be helpful. You have to understand that if you want to be taken seriously you need to post information from a website that doesn't have an agenda. Perhaps a scholarly one would be a good idea, don't you think? Also, I don't even know who runs that website you got your "evidence" from. Who runs it, sir? What are his credentials? Is he someone who I should respect? or is he an Arthur Kemp type (i.e. psuedo- historian) who uses what ever minimal evidence he can find (or distort) to try to prove a case? "This is all I have so far but if you need more proof about the nubian wives I will get more." So you couldn't draw any more info from that website? what shall you do now?
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king
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 4, 2005 11:25:03 GMT -5
So all I have so far was not good enough fine. Here is the website about the Propecy of Neferti I was talking about earlier. members.tripod.com/~ib205/prophecy_neferti.htmlAnd what other DNA studies you posted I don't remember any but the one about cairo. Also you keep talking like you have proof of diop's bias but you did not finish all of what he said. All you did was take two facts and changed the wording a little. Like I said earlier diop did not make these up if you can refute them do it or shut up. I will also get more Info on the Nubian wives if that was not enough. Also you talk about the dates but what you fail to understand is that these were done by white people back when being BLACK was the worse thing to be. If they found Ancient Egypt to be black back then when people were biased and talking about egyptians as white. Then its safe to say that egypt was Black. Just because it was done in the past does not mean they are wrong. They found egypt was black when people were biased. That says a lot. Also I did not get my Info from that website. I make sure to not get any info from biased readings only diop. And you still have not refuted him you just found different translations that prove the ancient egyptians were dark. His translations are not made up. Prove that they are made up and then talk. The only thing that makes me laugh is you talk about a caucasoid egypt with no proof. If keita made a mistake why do most people agree with him. He proved without question that upper egypt was negroid. The debate is now if the lower egyptians were the same as the upper egyptians. I hope you read the PROPHECY like I said earlier still think the nubians were different. P.S: Show me these other DNA studies that show the egyptians are caucasoid. Since this is all you have as proof. also you did not say anything about the Nubian wives findings you just damned a website. What do you feel about the Nubian wives I found. If it's not true refute it.
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king
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 4, 2005 11:27:52 GMT -5
I repeat I did not get my info from that website. Good try though.
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king
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 4, 2005 11:59:36 GMT -5
One thing I wanted to say is: Ahmose-Nefertari
Nubian Egyptian Queen
18th Dynasty
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king
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 4, 2005 12:06:25 GMT -5
Oh yeah hear is another link to another nubian wife :http://www.kingtutone.com/queens/nefertari/. Sorry for posting like this I hope nobody is angry. I don't mean to post like this. If you need more on Nubian wives I will get more. If you think you can find any info on asiatic queens of egypt bet you cannot find any reference to them being queen.
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Post by anodyne on Nov 4, 2005 15:15:09 GMT -5
Dude, this my last post concerning this topic. Arguing with you is like arguing with a child and its a waste of time. The following will point out why although it's obvious to anyone who has been watching over our argument. "And what other DNA studies you posted I don't remember any but the one about cairo." how about looking back on my recent posts? You'll find it. You should have done that first. It was the post right before the other guy disappeared. "Also you keep talking like you have proof of diop's bias but you did not finish all of what he said. All you did was take two facts and changed the wording a little. Like I said earlier diop did not make these up if you can refute them do it or shut up." umm.. didn't you post some translations he used that were distorted? and didn't I give you the correct translations? um, yeah, I did. Either you have a very poor short term memory or you're palying stupid. Maybe both. Diop's translations go against current translations and past translations... wait. .seems like Diop simply decided to change "curly" to "kinky" and so on to suit his purpose. How pathetic. "I will also get more Info on the Nubian wives if that was not enough." Uh huh.. you keep saying that. It should be so easy for you if you were so willing to mention the nubian wives. "Also you talk about the dates but what you fail to understand is that these were done by white people back when being BLACK was the worse thing to be. If they found Ancient Egypt to be black back then when people were biased and talking about egyptians as white. Then its safe to say that egypt was Black. Just because it was done in the past does not mean they are wrong. They found egypt was black when people were biased." This is 2005. Recent evidence is more valuable then what was believed in the past. So wait a minute... since they were white researchers claiming these people were black then it's valid? umm.... that proves nothing at all. That's like saying if a Black scholar states ancient Egyptians were Caucasian then it must be true because he's stating they are the opposite of his race. Sure people thought back then that Anceint Egyptians were Caucasian and the funny thing is modern day research proves them correct. Many of them may have come to the conclusion because they were racists but i guess they lucked out because they were proven correct. "Also I did not get my Info from that website. I make sure to not get any info from biased readings only diop. And you still have not refuted him you just found different translations that prove the ancient egyptians were dark. His translations are not made up. Prove that they are made up and then talk." Oh, I have. His translations are unique. When i say unique I don't mean in the good way. I mean in the sense that no other scholar of note translated those classics with the same results. Either 99% of scholars are wrong or Diop likes to distort. Hmmm.. which could it be? "He proved without question that upper egypt was negroid." Maybe to himself, you , and some Afrocentrics. No serious person gives the man a second thought. "The only thing that makes me laugh is you talk about a caucasoid egypt with no proof." Funny, I thought DNA tests were proof. Oh, right.. you were unable to go back and read my posts so you keep going on about my "lack of proof." "The debate is now if the lower egyptians were the same as the upper egyptians. I hope you read the PROPHECY like I said earlier still think the nubians were different." You keep going on about this prophecy. I asked you in what way does it prove the Ancient Egyptians were Negroids and instead you just repeat that the prophecy is proof. Well, HOW? EXPlAIN? (damn, caps) "P.S: Show me these other DNA studies that show the egyptians are caucasoid. Since this is all you have as proof." Maybe you weren't aware you can go back and read past posts on the same thread. So mayb eit's my fault for expecting too much from you. "also you did not say anything about the Nubian wives findings you just damned a website. What do you feel about the Nubian wives I found. If it's not true refute it." What findings? i wasn't the only person to ask you about it. So did Mike the Jedi and you refuse to post a source. How am i suppose to refute a source when i don't even have a clue where you got it from? post the source and then we talk. The burden of proof is on YOU (damn.. caps again) since you made the claim. I have substantiated my claim. You haven't. "I repeat I did not get my info from that website. Good try though." Ha! I took a sentence of each of your quotes in that post and googled them. The same website (the ONLY website) came up with the SAME EXACT sentences. So you did, liar. This website >>>> www.homestead.com/wysinger/ancientafrica.html It's the only website with those quotes. So now you're playing games with me. You're not a serious person at all. You have an agenda and you're making attempts (not even good attempt ) to hide it. I caught you lying, sir. "Oh yeah hear is another link to another nubian wife :http://www.kingtutone.com/queens/nefertari/." Doesn't even say anything about her being Nubian. I thought that was whay you're trying to prove?
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king
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 4, 2005 16:18:29 GMT -5
I don't have an agenda. I was not lying about the website thing I did not go to that website the one I went to was different then that.
Most of the genetic studies cited in the studies are from modern Egyptians. To match modern with ancient populations you have to extract Dna from ancient bone material. Very little studies have been done on ancient remains in either dyanstic or pre-dyanstic Egypt. A Sweedish geneticist named Svante Paabo did conduct Dna studies on ancient remains from the 12th dyansty and found that some of the lineages were unknown and some connected back to sub-Saharan Africa. The way that geneticist do this is through PCR which allows peoples to reconstruct ancient Dna to extract genetic information from it. Anyway Paabo's studies can be found in the following book:
Pääbo, S. and Di Rienzo, A.: A molecular approach to the study of Egyptian history. In: Biological Anthropology and the Study of Ancient Egypt (Eds : Davies, V. , and Walker, R. ),British Museum Press, pp. 86-90 (1993).
Ps: I don't really know what website I got the info from but you are probably right. Also I can't find any more info on the Nubian wifes
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king
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Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 4, 2005 16:30:06 GMT -5
Contrary to what you claim, no Dna study has every pinpointed the ''race'' of the ancient Egyptians. PCR in the future might tell us more about halpotypes and alleles a mummified Egyptian remain has. Thats what I think of your studies.
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king
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Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 4, 2005 19:14:21 GMT -5
the prophecy means That the son of a nubian woman will become king of egypt. If you read it you would of gotten that. If the Egyptians were much different than the Nubians They would not talk about a Nubian King of Egypt.
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