|
Post by humantag on May 14, 2005 6:52:07 GMT -5
I've seen alot of complaints about 'Nordicists' by Greeks and other southern Europeans. I think in this day and age however, Afrocentrists are a much more relevant threat to sound knowledge of the genetic heritage of Mediterranean peoples than Nordicists, though the two have become somewhat the same thing in a curious way.
It has become quite fashionable in the US for black 'scholars' to lay claim to the ancient civilizations of the Meditterranean. Many are familiar with Afrocentrist claims that the ancient Egyptians were black - what is much less known is that they also frequently argue that Rome and Greece were essentially Mulatto nations. Regrettably, in this era of 'political correctness' and 'identity politics', few academics have the intestinal fortitude to defend the historical and anthropological record against such revisionist attacks.
The afrocentrist revisionist movement is promoted primarily by black militant and white liberal academics with no interest in promoting the Nordicist agenda. They are essentially seeking to rewrite history in such a way as to enhance black self esteem.
Ironically however, in 'explaining' the darker complexions of southern Europeans as compared with Northern Europeans as the result of mixture with black Africans, they are effectively promoting the ultimate Nordicist scenario - but for interbreeding with blacks, Greeks and Italians would today look like Swedes.
Preposterous nonsense of course, but this is taught every day to millions of students across America.
|
|
|
Post by eufrenio on May 14, 2005 7:11:50 GMT -5
Ironically however, in 'explaining' the darker complexions of southern Europeans as compared with Northern Europeans as the result of mixture with black Africans, they are effectively promoting the ultimate Nordicist scenario - but for interbreeding with blacks, Greeks and Italians would today look like Swedes. Preposterous nonsense of course, but this is taught every day to millions of students across America. Well, Dienekes has been very vocal in refuting both Nordicists and Afrocentrists. Could you give us some examples of US textbooks promoting Afrocentrism, particularly the assertion that Greeks and Romans were not fully European? I would appreciate internet links, if available.
|
|
|
Post by humantag on May 14, 2005 7:57:32 GMT -5
Well, Dienekes has been very vocal in refuting both Nordicists and Afrocentrists. Could you give us some examples of US textbooks promoting Afrocentrism, particularly the assertion that Greeks and Romans were not fully European? I would appreciate internet links, if available. There are many and when I have time I will supply a more complete list. At the moment, two popular revisionist titles are: 'Black Athena" by Martin Bernal and "Black Spark, White Fire" by Richard Poe. For a nice critique of this trend, see Mary Lefkowitz' "Not Out of Africa".
|
|
|
Post by Platypus on May 14, 2005 8:05:14 GMT -5
This reminds me when I watched on British tv a program for kids about roman Britain, and it struck me because the actor who played the roman officer was of British Carribean or British african origin, which I thought at the time would have been confusing for the kids watching the program.
|
|
|
Post by eufrenio on May 14, 2005 10:53:28 GMT -5
There are many and when I have time I will supply a more complete list. At the moment, two popular revisionist titles are: 'Black Athena" by Martin Bernal and "Black Spark, White Fire" by Richard Poe. For a nice critique of this trend, see Mary Lefkowitz' "Not Out of Africa". Oh, you meant books used as textbooks at College level. I thought you were referring to school and highschool level textbooks.
|
|
|
Post by eufrenio on May 15, 2005 4:52:17 GMT -5
Topic moved.
|
|
|
Post by topdog on May 15, 2005 5:07:52 GMT -5
I've seen alot of complaints about 'Nordicists' by Greeks and other southern Europeans. I think in this day and age however, Afrocentrists are a much more relevant threat to sound knowledge of the genetic heritage of Mediterranean peoples than Nordicists, though the two have become somewhat the same thing in a curious way.[7quote] Eurocentric themes prevail in American schools, not Afrocentrism of the extreme type. Would you care to name these 'scholars' who have made such claims? The perception in America is still of a white European looking Egypt, not a black one. The only idiot calling Rome and Greece mulatto nations are people like Kemp and the Nordicists who claim that Roman and Greek civilisations degenerated because of alleged mixture with 'Negroes'. I can't help but think that I've saw this same whinning post or article some place before..........
|
|
|
Post by topdog on May 15, 2005 5:09:17 GMT -5
Oh, you meant books used as textbooks at College level. I thought you were referring to school and highschool level textbooks. Mary Leftowitz isn't anymore objective as Bernal.
|
|
|
Post by topdog on May 15, 2005 5:11:18 GMT -5
There are many and when I have time I will supply a more complete list. At the moment, two popular revisionist titles are: 'Black Athena" by Martin Bernal and "Black Spark, White Fire" by Richard Poe. For a nice critique of this trend, see Mary Lefkowitz' "Not Out of Africa". How is Black Spark, White Fire an Afrocentrist book? I actually read that book and nothing in it is remotely 'Afrocentric'. Bernal states in his book that most of the influence in Greece came from Phoenicians who in turn were influenced by the Egyptians.
|
|
|
Post by Melnorme on May 15, 2005 5:14:03 GMT -5
The perception in America is still of a white European looking Egypt BS, Americans imagine Ancient Egyptians as Arab-looking, and you know it.
|
|
|
Post by topdog on May 15, 2005 5:17:45 GMT -5
BS, Americans imagine Ancient Egyptians as Arab-looking, and you know it. Thats not BS and I'm talking about ancient Egyptians, not modern ones. Its amazing how the attackers of Afrocentrism critcise and lump all African-centered people together as evil but fail to criticised Eurocentric biased scholars.
|
|
|
Post by Melnorme on May 15, 2005 5:25:12 GMT -5
Thats not BS and I'm talking about ancient Egyptians, not modern ones. So am I? Well for the most part Eurocentric scholarship died out in the late 19th/early 20th century. Why keep on flogging a dead horse?
|
|
|
Post by humantag on May 15, 2005 6:10:44 GMT -5
How is Black Spark, White Fire an Afrocentrist book? I actually read that book and nothing in it is remotely 'Afrocentric'. Bernal states in his book that most of the influence in Greece came from Phoenicians who in turn were influenced by the Egyptians. Are you joking? For starters, the very cover of "Black Spark..." has a preposterous (an unintentionally hilarious, I might add) depiction of a black man with strong Sub Saharan negroid features in ancient Egyptian garb. Here are links to reviews of both books, for those interested: Black Spark, White Fire: Did African Explorers Civilize Ancient Europe? (book review) by Alexander H. Joffe. Journal of Near Eastern Studies, April 2002 v61 i2 p152 www.angeltowns.net/membercenter/100/dienekes/texts/poereview/The case against Martin Bernal by David Gress www.newcriterion.com/archive/08/dec89/gress.htm
|
|
|
Post by mike2 on May 15, 2005 10:29:44 GMT -5
Black Spark, White Fire is only as objective as Richard Poe. I do like some parts of it, though. I still have to agree that most Americans don't think of Ancient Egyptians as being white as they themselves are white. They think of them as dusky Arabs. That's why they always cast swarthy Euromestizos or Caucasians who look like they fit the bill to play the roles of AEs. For instance, Patricia Velasquez: Or Arnold Vosloo: imhotepsking.co.uk/wallpaper/pyramid_av2.jpgpic too wide
|
|
|
Post by alexandrian on May 15, 2005 10:46:38 GMT -5
BS, Americans imagine Ancient Egyptians as Arab-looking, and you know it. That's true. I don't think any Americans thik of AEs as white-skinned with blond hair and blue eyes.
|
|