cullen
Junior Member
Posts: 73
|
Post by cullen on Apr 29, 2005 13:04:20 GMT -5
He's the dude with African ancestry, right? correct, he was probably the only african/russian who lived at that time. If he lived in modern Russia, he would be probably stabbed to death too.
|
|
cullen
Junior Member
Posts: 73
|
Post by cullen on Apr 29, 2005 13:16:59 GMT -5
The girl was Tajik, and she was killed because her father was selling drugs. This murder had nothing racial about it. what a liar. The man didn't sell drugs, if he did, he would kill the murderers of his child with his own hands one by one. I guess, you have no clue about people who sell drugs. Russian losers would never touch a man who really sells drugs, they are too miserable to attack somebody who is stronger than they are. Eight charged in connection with murder of Tajik girl in Russia, one charged with hate crime By IRINA TITOVA Associated Press Writer (AP) - ST. PETERSBURG, Russia-Eight people have been charged in connection with the murder of a 9-year-old Tajik girl in St. Petersburg, a Russian news agency said, as Russia's second-largest city grapples with heightened racial tensions and fears of anti-foreigner violence. The Interfax news agency quoted St. Petersburg's chief prosecutor Sergei Zaitsev as saying the attack did not appear to be a hate crime. "It's a case of unemployed youth roused by alcohol," he was quoted as saying. But later Wednesday, Artom Bakonin, an aide to Zaitsev, told Interfax that one of the eight people detained was charged with a hate crime, while seven others were charged with hooliganism. A woman who answered the phone at the city prosecutor's office Wednesday referred comment to a prosecutor spokeswoman Yelena Ordinskaya, who could not be reached despite repeated attempts. Khursheda Sultanova was beaten and stabbed 11 times in Feb. 2004, while returning home with her father and nephew in St. Petersburg. Her relatives were hospitalized with various injuries and later released. The killing provoked protests from Tajikistan and underscored the growing incidence of hate crimes in Russia's major cities. Dark-skinned immigrants from poverty-stricken former Soviet Central Asia and the Caucasus Mountains region are often targets of violence by skinheads and other extremist groups. Interfax said the youngest of the seven youths was 14 at the time of the attack and five were unemployed, Interfax said. Student organization and foreigner support groups in St. Petersburg accuse authorities of doing little to combat the growing violent racism. Late last month, assailants attacked Angolan, Bangladeshi and Chinese students over a single weekend. Desire Deffo, deputy head of the African Union in St. Petersburg, said racial attacks had become more frequent in St. Petersburg in recent months, leaving foreigners afraid to walk the streets. In November, a jury found seven teenagers guilty of the premeditated, racially motivated murder of a 5-year-old Tajik girl outside St. Petersburg.
|
|
|
Post by henerte on Apr 29, 2005 13:26:55 GMT -5
They look reatarded beacuse they are retarded. Most of the Russians are children of former slaves. They have the same background as Blacks in USA, but they were slaves on their own lands. No wonder they are so primitive. Russians think they have great culture, they forget that most of their famous writers , composers, producers are not that pure Russian at all. For example, look at the portraits of one of the greatest, Russian poets, Alexander Pushkin. Don't you think you are exaggerating??? Russians probably are more racist than many of the sorrounding countries but I think we won't settle this dispute in this thread. Furthermore, calling Russians retarded and throwing them all into the same basket of racists doesn't make you better than them, on the contrary. Russians are definitely not children of slaves and it seems to me you use this term i.e. "black" as a form of insult. Hmm...It was just a specific form of serfdom or feudal system that had been popular all over Europe and was preserved in Russia up to the XIX century. Situation of polish peasants wasn't much different from russians (after all, they lived in one country), I hope you don't think they are also primitive just because of that? Do you have other examples of not that pure russian composers, writers etc? And what do you want to prove with that?
|
|
|
Post by Circe on Apr 29, 2005 14:37:40 GMT -5
They look reatarded beacuse they are retarded. Are you referring to Russians here or to skinheads as a group regardless of their ethnic background? Most of the Russians are children of former slaves. They have the same background as Blacks in USA, but they were slaves on their own lands. No wonder they are so primitive. They were serfs not slaves. I agree their position was extremely difficult, but there was no slavery in Russia. Russians think they have great culture, they forget that most of their famous writers , composers, producers are not that pure Russian at all. Russians do have great culture, starting from Rublov, via Repin to Kandinsky; not to mention Stravinsky, Musorgsky, Rachmaninov, or the literary achievements of Dostoevsky, Tolstoy or Mayakovski. Had you bothered to read some of the Russian authors you wouldn't be writing things like that. And they are Russian authors because they wrote in Russian, just as Joseph Conrad is an English author becuase he wrote in English. For example, look at the portraits of one of the greatest, Russian poets, Alexander Pushkin. Pushkin's great-grandfather, Ibrahim Petrovitch Gannibal was indeed Black, but his status in Petrine Russia was high above the status that would be conferred upon him in the United States at the same time, for example. Peter the Great believed that all the people are capable of great achievements regardless of their colour, and some say he even used Ibrahim as a proof of that, in his attempt to westernize the country. I think that the very fact that Pushkin was able to write and work freely, and that he was admitted to Russia's 'noble society' at the time without being hindered by 'one-drop rule' speaks volumes.
|
|
|
Post by Josh on Apr 29, 2005 15:01:16 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Josh on Apr 29, 2005 15:04:30 GMT -5
On the general subject, I think that it is unfair to categorize the Russians as being a generally bad group of people. Many of the remarks towards them on this thread seem overly harsh and probably wouldn't be tolerated towards other groups, so I don't think it is fair to tolerate the generalizations of Russians in the same way.
|
|
|
Post by Circe on Apr 29, 2005 15:11:44 GMT -5
On the general subject, I think that it is unfair to categorize the Russians as being a generally bad group of people. Many of the remarks towards them on this thread seem overly harsh and probably wouldn't be tolerated towards other groups, so I don't think it is fair to tolerate the generalizations of Russians in the same way. I completely agree. I don't like reacting to the provocative (read: trollish) threads like this one, but I think some people really crossed the line here...
|
|
|
Post by MC anunnaki on Apr 30, 2005 1:49:34 GMT -5
Well, I hope everyone understands that it's the skinheads I consider retarded-looking, not the Russians. That goes for the skins we have in Sweden too. Now that I think about it, they all look alike.
|
|
|
Post by hanan on Apr 30, 2005 17:15:13 GMT -5
Well, I hope everyone understands that it's the skinheads I consider retarded-looking, not the Russians. That goes for the skins we have in Sweden too. Now that I think about it, they all look alike. The skinheads look angry beyond rational thought, not retarded. Have you ever worked with retarded children? Some of them are more gentle than any non-retarded person I have ever met. And when I started this thread, I wanted intelligent discussion like Zemelmete participated in. She gave great information, grazi grazi.
|
|
|
Post by buddyrydell on Apr 30, 2005 21:58:57 GMT -5
Skinheads are racist bastards regardless of their ethnic origin. I agree that Russians are unfairly criticized sometimes, and the only reason why Russia may have more skinheads than the norm is because of the economic situation there. I'm sure most Russians are good people, like most people are in general.
|
|
|
Post by zemelmete on May 2, 2005 3:53:50 GMT -5
Don't agree. Serfes WERE slaves! In Latvia were serfs too and they had similar position as black slaves in America. They weren't free people. Owners of serfs could freerely sell/buy serfs, seperate families if it was needed, punish them (sometimes till death). Serf had no right for his life. It belonged to landlord. Serf had to work in favour of landlord and his family. Actually slavery in Russia and surrounding countries didn't stop in XIX century, it started again in Soviet Union and continued till 50ies in XX century (remember concentration camps and GULAG's). Only then instead landlord was government, instead overseers- gaolers, jailers. But everything other was the same as in old times- prisoners had no right for their own lifes, they had to work without reward etc. And these slaves mostly weren't criminals, they usually were honest people who were arrested just because of their "anti-soviet way of thinking". Of course racist-skinheads (not all skinheads are racists BTW) are bastards and they are not only between russians. But I don't really agree that in Russia are so many racists because of econimical situation. Here, in Latvia, is similar economical situation as in Russia, but here racist attacks are rare and I don't know any event when somebody would be killed because of "non-white" ancestry. I think the reason is, that laws in Russia work much more uneffective than in Baltic states, in Russia cops often don't punish causers and courts work very slow there. In result law-breakers feel freerely there and they think that their actions will stay unpanished. If to say about russians in summary, I can say that they are VERY different. Some of them are racists, other are anti-racists and some other are neutral. Many russians have seperated racial attitude- for example they can like people of mongoloid ancestry and in the same time dislike those of armenian, georgian, gypsy etc. ancestry. One thing I can say clearly- black africans and afro-americans and indians definately are foreign for russians, while mongoloids- not so much, because in Russia about 4% of population belong to this race, not to mention that between russians are people with visible mongoloid admixture. You are welcome. I'm happy if my information helped.
|
|
|
Post by henerte on May 2, 2005 10:39:44 GMT -5
Don't agree. Serfes WERE slaves! In Latvia were serfs too and they had similar position as black slaves in America. They weren't free people. Owners of serfs could freerely sell/buy serfs, seperate families if it was needed, punish them (sometimes till death). Serf had no right for his life. It belonged to landlord. Serf had to work in favour of landlord and his family. Actually slavery in Russia and surrounding countries didn't stop in XIX century, it started again in Soviet Union and continued till 50ies in XX century (remember concentration camps and GULAG's). Only then instead landlord was government, instead overseers- gaolers, jailers. But everything other was the same as in old times- prisoners had no right for their own lifes, they had to work without reward etc. And these slaves mostly weren't criminals, they usually were honest people who were arrested just because of their "anti-soviet way of thinking". Following your "logic" I should say that Germans are descendants of slaves. Serfdom also existed in Germany (though, abolished a few centuries earlier than in Russia) and continued till the XX century(concentration camps). Serfs weren't slaves. Landlords owned the land, to which serfs where bound. So if a land changed its owner the same happened to serfs. However it was not allowed to freely sell or buy serfs.
|
|
|
Post by zemelmete on May 2, 2005 10:51:54 GMT -5
Following your "logic" I should say that Germans are descendants of slaves. Serfdom also existed in Germany (though, abolished a few centuries earlier than in Russia) and continued till the XX century(concentration camps). Serfs weren't slaves. Landlords owned the land, to which serfs where bound. So if a land changed its owner the same happened to serfs. However it was not allowed to freely sell or buy serfs. Seems that our countries had little bit different history. As far as I know from latvian history books, serfs here in 17.-18. centuries absolutely belonged to their landlords (including their lifes). And here was able to freerely sell serfs. If to speak about concentration camps, i think that they are one of slavery forms.
|
|
|
Post by henerte on May 2, 2005 11:21:09 GMT -5
Seems that our countries had little bit different history. As far as I know from latvian history books, serfs here in 17.-18. centuries absolutely belonged to their landlords (including their lifes). And here was able to freerely sell serfs. What I have written is what I remember from high school. So there's a great chance that you are right, not me. There's also a possibility that the situation of serfs in some parts of Russia was different. However, in the 18. and 19. century we lived in the same country and serfdom was lifted in 1861 or 1864 partly due to uprising in Poland. I agree.
|
|
|
Post by Circe on May 2, 2005 11:39:05 GMT -5
Don't agree. Serfes WERE slaves! No offence, zemelmete, but I think you should look up the definition of serf. Now, you may argue that the position of serfs in Russia was pretty close to that of slaves, but to claim that slavery existed in Russia is completely unfounded. It also makes little sense to compare gulags to slavery. Gulags were concentration camps for forced labour. The situation of the political prisoners there can be compared to that of slaves, but it was not slavery. They were not buying or selling political prisoners... nor were there "serf markets" during tzarism in Russia... Don't forget we're talking about institutionalization of a system here. As far as I know from latvian history books... You should know by now never to trust a single source - national history books tend to be very biased, you know
|
|