king
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 1, 2005 21:06:57 GMT -5
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE AN IDIOT anodyne. IF YOU THINK THAT CHARLIE LOST THAT THREAD. AND IF YOU ACTUALLY TAKE ONE LOOK AT THE BUST OF NARMER AND SEE A CAUCASOID, SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH YOU. I FOR ONE USE TO BELIEVE THAT THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS WERE CAUCASOID BUT AFTER SEEING THE PICS OF THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS AND THEY THEMSELVES SAYING THAT THEY COME FROM THE SOUTH I REALIZED THAT THEY WERE FOR THE MOST PART BLACK PEOPLE. AGAIN YOU HAVE TO BE A REAL IGNORANT BIGOTTED FOOL TO SEE A CAUCASOID OUT OF THE NARMER BUST. NO ONE CAN ARGUE THAT NARMER WAS WHITE WHEN THEY TAKE A LOOK AT THE BUST. I MEAN COME ON. ALSO CHARLIE ONE THAT THREAD, SORRY:)
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Post by anodyne on Nov 1, 2005 21:35:28 GMT -5
First of all, your ability to type words in CAPS has impressed me. Such a difficult feat you have mastered, sir. Second of all, you can't seriously claim those are busts of negroids. That's my opinion from looking at those busts. We can go back and forth and not get anywhere on the busts but we can debate the DNA studies. But of course we wouldn't want your world to come crashing down. So lets ignore the DNA studies for your sake. You might burst a nerve and start typing with a 20 font if that happens. I also seriously doubt you EVER (oh, boy caps! you've infected me!) believed the Ancient Egyptians was a Caucasoid civilization. In fact, i think you're the same guy i've been arguing with in this thread but you want to avoid the study i posted so you create another name to rant against me as if that proves anything. And even if you're someone different, why not try to negate that study? You didn't even bring it up in your incredibly articulate post.
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Post by eufrenio on Nov 1, 2005 21:38:36 GMT -5
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE AN IDIOT anodyne. IF YOU THINK THAT CHARLIE LOST THAT THREAD. AND IF YOU ACTUALLY TAKE ONE LOOK AT THE BUST OF NARMER AND SEE A CAUCASOID, SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH YOU. I FOR ONE USE TO BELIEVE THAT THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS WERE CAUCASOID BUT AFTER SEEING THE PICS OF THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS AND THEY THEMSELVES SAYING THAT THEY COME FROM THE SOUTH I REALIZED THAT THEY WERE FOR THE MOST PART BLACK PEOPLE. AGAIN YOU HAVE TO BE A REAL IGNORANT BIGOTTED FOOL TO SEE A CAUCASOID OUT OF THE NARMER BUST. NO ONE CAN ARGUE THAT NARMER WAS WHITE WHEN THEY TAKE A LOOK AT THE BUST. I MEAN COME ON. ALSO CHARLIE ONE THAT THREAD, SORRY:) Please unlock the caps and stop calling other members names!
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Post by dplacid1 on Nov 2, 2005 10:05:06 GMT -5
1.i am not king. 2.he said she said wysinger.homestead.com/keita.pdf3.if you think menes isnt negroid you just aint being objective. you may as well say white people look like black. 4.keita contradicts himself does he, how do you describe the difference between an african oriental and european then? 5.king tut , your having a laugh manuampim.com/2005_update.html6.ill try and get a package together and well discuss ancient ancient egypt culture you will find way more similiar things to do with african cultures then anywhere else.
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king
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 2, 2005 10:14:04 GMT -5
I don't know much about studies because I have seen studies that say ancient egyptians were black and some that say they were white. One study does not mean they were caucasoid because other studies also say they were negroid. As for DNA studies what part of egypt did this take place in and show me the DNA study. But I want to talk about the bust put up a picture of the bust and show me why you think that is not a negroid. Because anyone who looks at the bust of narmer and says he does not look negroid has got to be drunk. MY BAD FOR CALLING YOU NAMES. And its true when I say that I use to think they were Caucasoid. But after viewing all the evidence put up by people who say they were negroid. The Egyptian Race According to the Classical Authors of Antiquity. The rainmaker king which is an african thing. and other ways that they were african. I had to change my views. But if you think that they were caucasoid show me proof. I have always seen proof that they were negroid but not much proof that they were caucasoid. P.S: How do you upload pictures. I am knew to this email stuff and I need help.
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Post by anodyne on Nov 2, 2005 13:43:53 GMT -5
"if you think menes isnt negroid you just aint being objective. you may as well say white people look like black."
I am objective, actually. It would be nice if you could be, too. I don’t care whether Ancient Egyptians were Negroid, Caucasoid, mixed, or Martians. Ancient Egypt doesn’t rank high with me. In fact, it ranks pretty down in the bottom for me.
Haplotype IV is a Negroid Haplotype but I find it interesting that he makes an attempt to convince the reader that V and XI is sub- Saharan as well. The haplotype IV is uncommon and could have been brought during the Kush invasions. So your link hasn’t proven that ancient Egyptians were Negroid. It just shows that there is a sub Saharan influence but that it isn’t even close to dominant. And his attempts at trying to change haplotypes from Caucasian to Negroid is rather amusing. A B + for effort.
“keita contradicts himself does he, how do you describe the difference between an african oriental and european then?” Excuse me, but I asked the question. Answering a question with a question isn’t an answer. So how about answering me. For a man who claims that race doesn’t exist it’s a contradiction to state that Ancient Egyptians were BIOLOGICALLY African. To state someone is biologically (insert geographical area here) is to admit biological differences between people.
So you want me to tell you the difference between Africans, Orientals, and Europeans? Try to spot me in a crowd of Nigerians and there’s your answer. You’ll be able to do so in within a split second because we’re biologically different, obviously.
“king tut , your having a laugh.” Yeah, I’m laughing. I’m laughing at the link you gave me. The man is a joke. Maybe I should move to Oakland and take a class at the community college he teaches just to validate my opinion. His academic achievements are so astounding that he has taught at community and state colleges. I wish you could see how impressed I am at this moment. People say my laughter is contagious.
“ill try and get a package together and well discuss ancient ancient egypt culture you will find way more similiar things to do with african cultures then anywhere else.”
Well, Ancient Egypt is an African civilization. And its culture is African since it developed in that region. It just wasn’t dominated by Negroids as you think.
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Post by anodyne on Nov 2, 2005 13:46:22 GMT -5
KING: "As for DNA studies what part of egypt did this take place in and show me the DNA study. But I want to talk about the bust put up a picture of the bust and show me why you think that is not a negroid. Because anyone who looks at the bust of narmer and says he does not look negroid has got to be drunk." It’s pretty hard to claim those busts are Negroid OR Caucasian. I’m not going to say such and such a bust looks like such a such type of race until I’m 100% certain. But I find it funny that people jump to the conclusion that they are busts of Negroids so easily. Also, if Negroids were the dominate race during Ancient Egypt don’t you think the genetic contribution would be substantial? I recall a study that was based on pyramid workers and the conclusion was that the modern day Egyptians were the same as the Ancient Egyptians: “Scientists at the University of Cairo tested DNA from the remains of pyramid workers from 2600 BC, and found that the DNA of ancient Egyptians matches that of modern Egyptians. That is, the people living in Egypt now are essentially the same as the people living there thousands of years ago.” 64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:Vcf4PWUMqKkJ:www.solargeneral.com/library/RaceOfAncientEgypt.pdf+egyptian+pyramid+workers+DNA+PBS%27s+Secrets+of+the+Pharaohs&hl=en#19Those who build the pyramids weren’t foreign slaves but Eyptians from all over. “MY BAD FOR CALLING YOU NAMES.” Fo’ shizzle my nizzle. We be mad tight now. “The Egyptian Race According to the Classical Authors of Antiquity.” Heh, feel free to post quotes from those classical authors of antiquity. The ancient Greeks differentiated Ethiopians from Egyptians. Humor me, my classical scholar friend.
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king
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 2, 2005 16:06:25 GMT -5
One thing that gets me is how some people say how they careless about egypt but fight so hard for it to be caucasoid. The reason why they say that they careless about egypt and that it ranks low to them is really because deep down they know that Egypt was a black african civililization they also know that they are fighting a losing war. More and more people are seeing the truth that egypt was a black african civilization. Their is too much evidence pointing to a black egypt than to a white egypt. I am not that big about race. I just want the truth and sorry to say but The black egypt arguement is hard to ignore. Also I remember that study that was done that said that modern egypt is like ancient egypt also. It was done by the University of Cairo of course they are going to find ancient and modern the same. And again it is not hard to claim that those bust are negroid just look at the bust and look at a white person and a black person and you tell me who looks closer to the bust of narmer. you want quotes: (a) Herodotus, 'the father of history', -480(?) to -425. With regard to the origins of the Colchians25 he writes:
it is in fact manifest that the Colchidians are Egyptian by race ... several Egyptians told me that in their opinion the Colchidians were descended from soldiers of Sesostris. I had conjectured as much myself from two pointers, firstly because they have black skins and kinky hair (to tell the truth this proves nothing for other peoples have them too) and secondly, and more reliably for the reason that alone among mankind the Egyptians and the Ethiopians have practiced circumcision since time immemorial. The Phoenicians and Syrians of Palestine themselves admit that they learnt the practice from the Egyptians while the Syrians in the river Thermodon and Pathenios region and their neighbors the Macrons say they learnt it recently from the Colchidians. These are the only races which practice circumcision and it is observable that they do it in the same way as the Egyptians. As between the Egyptians themselves and the Ethiopians I could not say which taught the other the practice for among them it is quite clearly a custom of great antiquity. As to the custom having been learnt through their Egyptian connections, a further strong proof to my mind is that all those Phoenicians trading to Greece cease to treat the pudenda after the Egyptian manner and do not subject their offspring to circumcision.26
Herodotus reverts several times to the negroid character of the Egyptians and each time uses it as a fact of observation to argue more or less complex theses. Thus to prove that the Greek oracle at Dondona in Epirus was of Egyptian origin, one of his arguments is the following: '. . . and when they add that the dove was black they give us to understand that the woman was Egyptian.'27 The doves in question - actually there were two according to the text - symbolize two Egyptian women who are said to have BEEN carried off from the Egyptian Thebes to found the oracles in Greece at Dodona and in Libya (Oasis of Jupiter Amon) respectively. Herodotus did not share the opinion of Anaxagoras that the melting of the snows on the mountains of Ethiopia was the source of the Nile floods.28 He relied on the fact that it neither rains or snows in Ethiopia 'and the heat there turns men black'.29
(b) Aristotle, -389 to -332, scientist, philosopher and tutor of Alexander the Great.
In one of his minor works, Aristotle attempts, with unexpected naivete', to establish a correlation between the physical and moral natures of living beings and leaves us evidence on the Egyptian-Ethiopian race which confirms what Herodotus says. According to him, 'Those who are too black are cowards, like for instance, the Egyptians and Ethiopians. But those who are excessively white are also cowards as we can see from the example of women, the complexion of courage is between the two.'30
(c) Lucian, Greek writer, +125(?) to +190.
The evidence of Lucian is as explicit as that of the two previous writers. He introduces two Greeks, Lycinus and Timolaus, who start a conversation.
Lycinus (describing a young Egyptian): 'This boy is not merely black; he has thick lips and his legs are too thin. . . his hair worn in a plait behind shows that he is not a freeman.'
Timolaus: 'But that is a sign of really distinguished birth in Egypt, Lycinus. All freeborn children plait their hair until they reach manhood. It is the exact opposite of the custom of our ancestors who thought it seemly for old men to secure their hair with a gold brooch to keep it in place.'31
(d) Apollodorus, first century before our era, Greek philosopher.
'Aegyptos conquered the country of the blackfooted ones and called it Egypt after himself.'32
(e) Aeschylus, -525(?) to -456, tragic poet and creator of Greek tragedy.
In The Suppliants, Danaos, fleeing with his daughters, the Danaids, and pursued by his brother Aegyptos with his sons, the Aegyptiads, who seek to wed their cousins by force, climbs a hillock, looks out to sea and describes the Aegyptiads at the oars afar off in these terms: 'I can see the crew with their black limbs and white tunics.'33
A similar description of the Egyptian type of man recurs a few lines later in verse 745.
(f) Achilles Tatius of Alexandria.
He compares the herdsmen of the Delta to the Ethiopians and explains that they are blackish, like half-castes.
(g) Strabo, -58 to about +25.
Strabo visited Egypt and almost all the countries of the Roman empire. He concurs in the theory that the Egyptians and the Colchoi are of the same race but holds that the migrations to Ethiopia and Colchoi had been from Egypt only
'Egyptians settled in Ethiopia and in Colchoi.'34 There is no doubt whatever as to Strabo's notion of the Egyptian's race for he seeks elsewhere to explain why the Egyptians are darker than the Hindus, a circumstance which would permit the refutation, if needed, of any attempt at confusing 'the Hindu and Egyptian races'.
(h) Diodorus of Sicily, about -63 to +14, Greek historian and contemporary of Caesar Augustus.
According to Diodorus it was probably Ethiopia which colonized Egypt (in the Athenian sense of the term, signifying that, with overpopulation, a proportion of the people emigrate to new territory).
The Ethiopians say that the Egyptians `are one of their colonies,35 which was led into Egypt by Osiris. They claim that at the beginning of the world Egypt was simply a sea but that the Nile, carrying down vast quantities of loam from Ethiopia in its flood waters, finally filled it in and made it part of the continent. . . They add that the Egyptians have received from them, as from authors and their ancestors, the greater part of their laws.36
(i) Diogenes Laertius.
He wrote the following about Zeno, founder of the stoic School (-333 to -261): 'Zeno son of Mnaseas or Demeas was a native of Citium in Cyprus, a Greek city which has taken in some Phoenician colonists.' In his Lives, Timotheus of Athens describes Zeno as having a twisted neck. Apollonius of Tyre says of him that he was gaunt, very tall and black, hence the fact that, according to Chrysippus in the First Book of his Proverbs, certain people called him an Egyptian vine-shoot.37
(j) Ammianus Marcellinus, about +33 to +100, Latin historian and friend of the Emperor Julian.
With him we reach the sunset of the Roman empire and the end of classical antiquity. There are about nine centuries between the birth of Aeschylus and Herodotus and the death of Ammianus Marcellinus, nine centuries during which the Egyptians, amid a sea of white races, steadily crossbred. It can be said without exaggeration that in Egypt one household in ten included a white Asiatic or Indo-European slave.39
It is remarkable that, despite its intensity, all this crossbreeding should not have succeeded in upsetting the racial constants. Indeed Ammianus Marcellinus writes: ". . .the men of Egypt are mostly brown and black with a skinny and desiccated look."39 He also confirms the evidence already cited about the Colchoi: 'Beyond these lands are the heartlands of the Camaritae40 and the Phasis with its swifter stream borders the country of the Colchoi, an ancient race of Egyptian origin
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Post by anodyne on Nov 2, 2005 19:20:15 GMT -5
"One thing that gets me is how some people say how they careless about egypt but fight so hard for it to be caucasoid. The reason why they say that they careless about egypt and that it ranks low to them is really because deep down they know that Egypt was a black african civililization they also know that they are fighting a losing war. More and more people are seeing the truth that egypt was a black african civilization."
Yeah, that MUST be it. You caught me, sir! You caught me red handed! Oh, please. I'm not "fighting hard." I just state the evidence. What you do with it is your business. I could care less. I'm not here to change anyone's mind. I don't lose sleep over knowing someone thinks Ancient Egypt was an Negroid civilization. I do find it humorous, though.
"More and more people are seeing the truth that egypt was a black african civilization."
Uh huh. You must be one of those new missionary types. Spreading the truth where ever you go! pat yourself on the back and don't let reality hamper your altruism.
by the way? are you Diop? I just need to know because you copied and pasted so much from one of his articles.
"it is in fact manifest that the Colchidians are Egyptian by race ... several Egyptians told me that in their opinion the Colchidians were descended from soldiers of Sesostris. I had conjectured as much myself from two pointers, firstly because they have black skins and kinky hair (to tell the truth this proves nothing for other peoples have them too) and secondly, and more reliably for the reason that alone among mankind the Egyptians and the Ethiopians have practiced circumcision since time immemorial."
hmmmm.... lets take this part, shall we? Mr. Diop. Here's another translation.
"For the people of Colchis are evidently Egyptian, and this I perceived for myself before I heard it from others. So when I had come to consider the matter I asked them both; and the Colchians had remembrance of the Egyptians more than the Egyptians of the Colchians; but the Egyptians said they believed that the Colchians were a portion of the army of Sesostris. That this was so I conjectured myself not only because they are dark-skinned and have curly hair (this of itself amounts to nothing, for there are other races which are so), but also still more because the Colchians, Egyptians, and Ethiopians alone of all the races of men have practised circumcision from the first."
So what have we learned? that the Colchians are considered Egyptian and that they have adark complexion (wow, that's news considering people from North Africa and Middle East are dark to begin with but not black) and they have curly hair (like many people from those areas.)
Anyway, Herotodus view on Colchians is rather debatable since the connection bewteen this group and Egypt probably doesn't exist.
What you posted: 'Egyptians settled in Ethiopia and in Colchoi.'34 There is no doubt whatever as to Strabo's notion of the Egyptian's race for he seeks elsewhere to explain why the Egyptians are darker than the Hindus, a circumstance which would permit the refutation, if needed, of any attempt at confusing 'the Hindu and Egyptian races'.
But wait..... Stabo wrote....
Strabo: 13. The whole of India is traversed by rivers. . . . As for the people of India, those in the south are like the Aethiopians in colour, although they are like the rest in respect to countenance and hair (for on account of the humidity of the air their hair does not curl), whereas those in the north are like the Egyptians.
Indians from the north are much lighter in complexion than their neighbors in the south. Seriously, should i go on, Mr. Ceikh Anta Diop?
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king
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 2, 2005 22:36:09 GMT -5
I think you should go on because so far you have not convinced me of anything. And you must lose sleep over the fact that a lot of people are now viewing ancient egypt as a black african civilization. You still have not proving that they are a caucasoid people. All the stuff you said so far does not hold much weight. What evidence have you stated for egyptians being caucasoid none. All you do is talk garbage. Also indians from the north are not all that light we are not talking about bollywood hear which is what you are trying to really say. Most indians from the north are not as light as you make them out to be. Bollywood is not the norm so stop watching bollywood movies. I feel for you anodyne your so stuck on refuting black egypt you don't see that black egypt is becoming the norm. I hear they have pills to help you get a good night sleep.
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Post by Mike the Jedi on Nov 2, 2005 22:43:13 GMT -5
When Greek historians talk of India they are really talking about Pakistan and the northern regions of India. And you won't find too many Pakistanis who look like black Africans.
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king
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 2, 2005 22:44:34 GMT -5
Don't mean to double post but answer me this anodyne.What many people don't know is the fact that while foreign wives of a Pharoah had no chance of becoming the primary wife and queen, Nubian wives were the only exception. If the ancient egyptians looked at nubians as different why did they make Nubian wives the only exception to this rule. Answer this and maybe I will change my mind about them being negroid.
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king
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 2, 2005 22:55:16 GMT -5
Who ever said Pakistanis look like black africans. Even still I know people from Pakistan and they are still darker than bollywood stars. And this does not change the fact about ancient egypt being black people. I never said they were blue black I just said they were black. Their is more than one shade of black. This still does not prove that they were caucasoid. I need to be convinced. So far no PROOF. The sad truth is you are not going to find any proof that they were caucasoid, only proof that they were African. So I don't expect to change my point of view any time soon. Mike the Jedi I respect you so If you can prove they were caucasoid I will also believe you.
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king
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by king on Nov 3, 2005 12:19:48 GMT -5
I guess nobody has a reply to what I said about The nubian wives. Too bad, the way anodyne was talking about them being caucasoid you think he would of had something to say by now. I guess I win this one.
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Post by anodyne on Nov 3, 2005 20:17:09 GMT -5
"I think you should go on because so far you have not convinced me of anything. And you must lose sleep over the fact that a lot of people are now viewing ancient egypt as a black african civilization. You still have not proving that they are a caucasoid people. All the stuff you said so far does not hold much weight. What evidence have you stated for egyptians being caucasoid none. All you do is talk garbage. Also indians from the north are not all that light we are not talking about bollywood hear which is what you are trying to really say. Most indians from the north are not as light as you make them out to be. Bollywood is not the norm so stop watching bollywood movies. I feel for you anodyne your so stuck on refuting black egypt you don't see that black egypt is becoming the norm. I hear they have pills to help you get a good night sleep."
hahaha.... you copied and pasted distorted translations and now you're upset that I caugfht you on it. Yes, i can't sleep at night because i'm laughing at your sillyness. You have to understand that after i found two of your translations lacking I realized that the rest must be bull, too. Considering that your translation comes from Diop. Stop embarrassing yourself, sir.
"I guess nobody has a reply to what I said about The nubian wives. Too bad, the way anodyne was talking about them being caucasoid you think he would of had something to say by now. I guess I win this one."
How about you give me the source for that belief you have, Mr. Diop? Hahahaha
Now, I've given you proof and i've ripped apart your so called "proof." Rather than defend Diop's translations you jumped ship and asked me to prove some sillyness about Nubian wives. So is this what this thread will turn in to? you post mistranslations and other false information and i tear it apart? if so then i rather not since other things are vastly more important then making you out to be a fool.
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