|
Post by Curious6 on May 7, 2005 6:44:38 GMT -5
RE:No they have DNA that corresponds to middle-eastern DNA full stop! hence by your argument they should also claim he right to return! lol after all your "people" have been in the "wilderness" for over 2000 years! or is your right to return based only on 2000 year old inhabitants of the middle-east lol what a joke! oooooo I forgot your people also have mongolian and european blood so perhaps you can take some of those countrys and claim them for your own! FACE IT JEWS BELONG NO WHERE ethnically speaking! Have you read what I said above? I doubt you have, Spaniards have a SMALL MINORITY of their genetic makeup derived from the demic diffusion which occurred approximately 10,000 years ago while with Jews this is clearly not the case. We are from the Middle East, and have retained cultural ties to the land of Israel throughout millennia. The fact that some have larger proportions of European ancestry doesn't change the fact that most of their ancestors came from the ME. Ok lets base it purely on race then see above for an answer! you see you cant have it both ways and one way or the other your argument just becomes non-senseical! RE:By the way, if you call scientific studies corroborated by peer review Zionist propaganda then I clearly call into question your abilities to differentiate between objective sources and plain propaganda. You may have fooled the goyim on this board with your talmudic tall tails but not this son of SHEM! LOL, I have fooled nobody over here, just stated the obvious. If you can come back with anything that is worth replying to, as for example why you believe the land has been 'stolen' (a point which you completely deviated from because you have no answer) then I will take you more seriously.
|
|
|
Post by Meddish on May 7, 2005 17:51:29 GMT -5
RE:Have you read what I said above? I doubt you have, Spaniards have a SMALL MINORITY of their genetic makeup derived from the demic diffusion which occurred approximately 10,000 years ago while with Jews this is clearly not the case. We are from the Middle East, and have retained cultural ties to the land of Israel throughout millennia. The fact that some have larger proportions of European ancestry doesn't change the fact that most of their ancestors came from the ME. You dont know how far your small amount of trace M'E DNA goes back! when some of your ancestors may have come from the ME. Southern europeans on the other hand probably have more recent with islamic conquest of sicilly spain etc etc so the arabic and or middle-eastern blood is more modern so again why shouldent they do as you have done and claim some land? RE:LOL, I have fooled nobody over here, just stated the obvious. If you can come back with anything that is worth replying to, as for example why you believe the land has been 'stolen' (a point which you completely deviated from because you have no answer) then I will take you more seriously i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/Meddish/79b0bd7f.gifIn an article in the Haaretz newspaper, Danny Rabinovitz wrote, "What happened to the Palestinians in 1948 is Israel's original sin... Between the 1950s and 1976, the state systematically confiscated most of the land of its remaining Palestinian citizens." Here is the testimony of an Israeli soldier who participated in the massacre at al-Duwayima village on 29 October 1948, quoted in Davar on 9 June 1979: [We] killed between 80 to 100 Arabs, women and children. To kill the children they fractured their heads with sticks. There was not one house without corpses. The men and women of the villages were pushed into houses without food or water. Then the saboteurs came to dynamite the houses. One commander ordered a soldier to bring two women into a house he was about to blow up. Another soldier prided himself upon having raped an Arab woman before shooting her to death. Another Arab woman with her newborn baby was made to clean the place for a couple of days, and then they shot her and the baby. Educated and well-mannered commanders who were considered "good guys" became base murderers, and this not in the storm of battle, but as a method of expulsion and extermination. The fewer the Arabs who remain, the better. Sounds like murder and theft to me!
|
|
|
Post by Igu on May 7, 2005 18:01:50 GMT -5
-Israel is a legitimate and just state, it has been created legally and without stealing anything.
-Arabs AGRESSED a sovereign nation in 48, Israel legitimally defended itself and conquered new lands. AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.
Eretz Israel Yaffa!
|
|
|
Post by Meddish on May 7, 2005 18:04:59 GMT -5
-Israel is a legitimate and just state, it has been created legally and without stealing anything. -Arabs AGRESSED a sovereign nation in 48, Israel legitimally defended itself and conquered new lands. AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH. Eretz Israel Yaffa!
|
|
|
Post by Yankel on May 8, 2005 2:30:22 GMT -5
Meddish, don't fool yourself. When it comes to genetics Curious6 is out of your league. Stick to name-calling and slander.
These 'so-called' genetic studies are numerous. Most of them have been conducted by non-Jewish and/or non-American geneticists with no ties to the Israeli-Arab conflict. Besides, if you believe science is propaganda then you're living in a conspiracy world that I refuse to be a part of. You'll find this to be true of nearly all sain, rational people.
Uhh...By your standards, neither are the Palestinians. For example...
The frequency of haplogroup G is highest in Georgia (30%) and decreases to 10% in Southern Europe and Turkey [Semino et al., 2000; Cinnioglu et al., 2004]...Contrary to previous reports showing only a minor (3–6%) frequency of haplogroup G among Palestinians as compared to over 50% of haplogroup J [Hammer et al., 2000; Nebel et al., 2001], 15 of the 20 Palestinian samples (75%) studied here belonged to haplogroup G, and none to haplogroup J. This suggests high heterogeneity among Palestinians Y-chromosomes.
(Shen et al 2004)
Most Jewish groups have mixed with their host populations to a significant extent, no one is arguing otherwise. However, our primary roots are in the Middle East. As Jews we share common ancestry.
That must be why the vast majority of Iberians belong to Hg R1b. R1b is the most prevalent haplogroup in Italy, as well as the rest of Europe. E3b and J -- which most Near Eastern groups belong to -- are the dominant haplogroups among Sephardi Jews.
This is especially hilarious coming from a man whose ancestry is derived from half a dozen different ethnicities. The hypocrisy of your statement is overwhelming.
|
|
|
Post by Meddish on May 8, 2005 5:15:24 GMT -5
RE:This is especially hilarious coming from a man whose ancestry is derived from half a dozen different ethnicities. The hypocrisy of your statement is overwhelming. Not really unlike your mother I know who my fathers are! besides even if I was a negroid-nordic-mongoloid I could still make the point that modern jewery belongs nowhere in particular ethnicaly speaking.And im not "derived from half a dozen different ethnicities" im over half-european and rest is M'E.Countrys not races is what I have a few of in my family.
|
|
|
Post by Curious6 on May 8, 2005 5:58:47 GMT -5
Meddish, your comments about genetics are ignorant and silly. You just speak whatever is on your mind, and the uninformed claims you make are not corroborated by any scientific evidence. I don't see why I should take you seriously. If you posted any genetics study then your points would seem a bit more credible. Oh, wait, I forgot all genetics studies are a form of Zionist propaganda!
As to the map you have posted, I wonder from what source it comes. The 1947 UN Partition Plan was careful to allot half the area of Western Palestine to Jews and half the Arabs, in the areas where each were a respective majority at the time. Approximately 75% of the land allotted to the Jews was the Neguev desert, while Arabs got large areas of fertile land.
A small comment about land ownership. The only serious survey I know of which was done to look at the portions of land owned by each party was the 1946 Survey of Palestine. This was just prior to the Partition Plan, and in it, they concluded 8.6% of the land was owned by Jews and 3.3% by Arabs. About 15% was held by Arab absentee landholders who had long left the land and the remainder was public territory.
Finally, addressing your point about the refugees. Quoting one single soldier is not a proof of anything. You should look more carefully at studies done on the topic or read some books about it by respected historians. They all conclude the same: the vast majority of Palestinians fled without ever seeing an Israeli soldier due mainly to the demands of evacuating the land by Arab leaders.
|
|
|
Post by Tautamo on May 8, 2005 14:18:01 GMT -5
why did this turn into shit? btw thanks Curious6 for the review and the link
meddish are you from palestine?
|
|
|
Post by Yankel on May 8, 2005 15:46:07 GMT -5
besides even if I was a negroid-nordic-mongoloid I could still make the point that modern jewery belongs nowhere in particular ethnicaly speaking. Sephardic and Ashkenazic Jews are very similar to one another. Ethnically speaking, 'Jewish' IS an ethnicity. Didn't you say you were Albanian, Turkish, Kurdish, Arab, English and Italian? That's less than half Middle Eastern. German Jews have more Near Eastern genes than you.
|
|
|
Post by Meddish on May 8, 2005 16:11:18 GMT -5
RE: Didn't you say you were Albanian, Turkish, Kurdish, Arab, English and Italian? That's less than half Middle Eastern. German Jews have more Near Eastern genes than you. I dont know who you are "flowin prose" but no doubt your a regular member going by another nick, I dont have to explain my background to you but lets get it straight O.K!? Mother-is English her father is 100% english her mother is from northern Italy. Father Syrian both his parents from Syria.My FATHERS! grandparents 1.)Syrian Kurd 2.)Arab 3.)Albainian 4.)Turk Hence im culturally 1/2 european and 1/2 Arab.Ethnically im 62.5% European and 37.5% Middle-eastern. Got it!! And it matters not whether im a f*cking negro from west africa "jews" I.E Khazzars DONT BELONG IN PALESTINE!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by Meddish on May 8, 2005 16:13:09 GMT -5
RE:Sephardic and Ashkenazic Jews are very similar to one another. Ethnically speaking, 'Jewish' IS an ethnicity. Sureeeeeeeeeeeee they are lol thats why Paul Newman looks so much like the typicall middle-easterner!!! www.khazaria.com/
|
|
|
Post by Curious6 on May 8, 2005 16:28:40 GMT -5
Meddish, you don't need to get annoyed or anything. It is just a statement of a fact, if you don't want to accept it then there's nothing that can be done to change your view. I say this because apparently you are not convinced by any sort of evidence. If P. Newman doesn't look typically M. Eastern it's because of the aforementioned European admixture. It's not hard to grasp.
|
|
|
Post by flinstone1001 on May 8, 2005 16:49:40 GMT -5
Moderator, Why have I been banned without warning!?? maybe we could have moved it to free speach and continued there? But I dont see why I should been banned based upon what I have said!? the topic in question is a heated one and is sure to generate strong feelings.Or was there a more sinister motive for me being silenced? Regardless im happy to end it now.
|
|
|
Post by Yankel on May 8, 2005 19:15:26 GMT -5
Hence im culturally 1/2 european and 1/2 Arab.Ethnically im 62.5% European and 37.5% Middle-eastern. Firstly, Europe is a continent. Its home to many different cultures. Secondly, you come from 6 different backgrounds, hence 'half a dozen'. Finally, you claim you're culturally Middle Eastern. Newsflash: Even if Jews were racially mixed (they're not), they'd still be culturally Middle Eastern. You're contradicting yourself.
|
|
|
Post by Yankel on May 8, 2005 19:19:20 GMT -5
RE:Sephardic and Ashkenazic Jews are very similar to one another. Ethnically speaking, 'Jewish' IS an ethnicity. Sureeeeeeeeeeeee they are lol thats why Paul Newman looks so much like the typicall middle-easterner!!! www.khazaria.com/Paul Newman is half-Jewish, actually. By the way, Khazaria is a great site. This is from their genetics section: Advanced genetic testing, including Y-DNA and mtDNA haplotyping, of modern Jewish communities around the world, has helped to determine which of the communities are likely to descend from the Israelites and which are not, as well as to establish the degrees of separation between the groups. Important studies archived here include the University College London study of 2002, Ariella Oppenheim's study of 2001, Ariella Oppenheim's study of 2000, Michael Hammer's study of 2000, and others.
Key findings: # The main ethnic element of Ashkenazim (German and Eastern European Jews), Sephardim (Spanish and Portuguese Jews), Mizrakhim (Middle Eastern Jews), Juhurim (Mountain Jews of the Caucasus), Italqim (Italian Jews), and most other modern Jewish populations of the world is Israelite. The Israelite haplotypes fall into haplogroups J and E. # Ashkenazim also descend, in a smaller way, from European peoples such as Slavs and Khazars. The non-Israelite haplogroups include Q (typically Central Asian) and R1a1 (typically Eastern European). # Dutch Jews from the Netherlands also descend from northwestern Europeans. # Sephardim also descend, in a smaller way, from various non-Israelite peoples. # Georgian Jews (Gruzim) are a mix of Georgians and Israelites. # Yemenite Jews (Temanim) are a mix of Yemenite Arabs and Israelites. # Moroccan Jews, Algerian Jews, and Tunisian Jews are mainly Israelites. # Libyan Jews are mainly Berbers. # Ethiopian Jews are almost exclusively Ethiopian, with little or no Israelite ancestry. # Palestinian Arabs are probably partly Israelite.
|
|