Post by executiona9 on May 27, 2004 20:24:42 GMT -5
There has been a lot of debate regarding the roots of Serbs and Croats.
The point that most people dont seem to get is that Celtic, Slavic, Roman, Germanic and Iranians are not racial groups. They are just cultures.
When we discuss the ancestors of Europeans we cant speak of Celts, Germanic, Roman, Iranian or Slavs etc, they are only cultural/linguistical groups, not subracial groups.
When we discuss Europeans on a racial basis the Europeans have 5 racial ancestors :
1. Aurignacians. These a people had the Aurignacian culture. Haplo group : eu18 = r1b. Mostly found in Western-Europe
2. Gravettians. These people had the Gravettian culture. Haplo group : eu7 = I. Mostly found in Central Europe.
3. Aryans. These people had the kurgan (indo-european) culture. Haplo group : eu19 = r1a. Mostly found in Eastern-Europe.
4. Neolithic. Haplo groups : E3b, F, J2, G2 = eu4, eu9, eu10, eu11. Mostly found in South-Eastern Europe
5. Uralic. Haplo Groups : N3 = eu14. Mostly found in North-East Europe
The above are the 5 ancestors of all Europeans.
Some historic images to visualize this :
Map 1 - Ice age Europe (18,000 years ago)
You can see that during the Ice age the Aurignacians were living in Spain, the Gravettians in the Balkan and the Aryans in the Ukraine.
Map 2- spread of Haplogroups R1b, I and R1a (12,000 years ago)
After the ice age, these 3 groups spreaded northward
Map 3 - spread of Neolithic haplogroups (from 8,000 years ago)
In Neolithic the final 2 ancestors of Europeans migrated to Europe : the neolithic and the uralics.
source : www.dnaheritage.com/masterclass2.asp
With this information we can look at the ethnic make up of modern day Croatians :
Croatians are :
44,8 % eu7
6,9 % eu4
5,2 % eu9
1,7 % eu11
1,7 % eu16
10,3 % eu18
29,3 % eu19
source : hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/Science_2000_v290_p1155.pdf
This means the ancestors of the modern day Croatians are as following :
- 44,8 % Gravettians (eu7)
- 29,3 % aryans (eu19)
- 13,8 % neolithics (eu4 + eu9 + eu10 + eu11)
- 10,3 % aurignacians (eu18)
- 1,7 % other
This is in my opinion the correct way of describing the ancestry of Europeans. You can do it this way for every European country.
The point that most people dont seem to get is that Celtic, Slavic, Roman, Germanic and Iranians are not racial groups. They are just cultures.
When we discuss the ancestors of Europeans we cant speak of Celts, Germanic, Roman, Iranian or Slavs etc, they are only cultural/linguistical groups, not subracial groups.
When we discuss Europeans on a racial basis the Europeans have 5 racial ancestors :
1. Aurignacians. These a people had the Aurignacian culture. Haplo group : eu18 = r1b. Mostly found in Western-Europe
2. Gravettians. These people had the Gravettian culture. Haplo group : eu7 = I. Mostly found in Central Europe.
3. Aryans. These people had the kurgan (indo-european) culture. Haplo group : eu19 = r1a. Mostly found in Eastern-Europe.
4. Neolithic. Haplo groups : E3b, F, J2, G2 = eu4, eu9, eu10, eu11. Mostly found in South-Eastern Europe
5. Uralic. Haplo Groups : N3 = eu14. Mostly found in North-East Europe
The above are the 5 ancestors of all Europeans.
Some historic images to visualize this :
Map 1 - Ice age Europe (18,000 years ago)
You can see that during the Ice age the Aurignacians were living in Spain, the Gravettians in the Balkan and the Aryans in the Ukraine.
Map 2- spread of Haplogroups R1b, I and R1a (12,000 years ago)
After the ice age, these 3 groups spreaded northward
Map 3 - spread of Neolithic haplogroups (from 8,000 years ago)
In Neolithic the final 2 ancestors of Europeans migrated to Europe : the neolithic and the uralics.
source : www.dnaheritage.com/masterclass2.asp
With this information we can look at the ethnic make up of modern day Croatians :
Croatians are :
44,8 % eu7
6,9 % eu4
5,2 % eu9
1,7 % eu11
1,7 % eu16
10,3 % eu18
29,3 % eu19
source : hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/Science_2000_v290_p1155.pdf
This means the ancestors of the modern day Croatians are as following :
- 44,8 % Gravettians (eu7)
- 29,3 % aryans (eu19)
- 13,8 % neolithics (eu4 + eu9 + eu10 + eu11)
- 10,3 % aurignacians (eu18)
- 1,7 % other
This is in my opinion the correct way of describing the ancestry of Europeans. You can do it this way for every European country.
