Slaven
Junior Member
SURG GASTOY I NAS - Cheers to the guests and us
Posts: 56
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Post by Slaven on May 14, 2004 3:02:21 GMT -5
I do not have a quote about that but following the logic of Continuity Theory, the foundation of Baltic languages arrised during the Neolithic migrations too. So, there shouldn't be ancestral land before the Metal ages. After the metal ages those languages arrised by mixing with some idioms of the Northern peoples.
That the CT might be right show the discovered swasticas on clay seals found in R. Macedonia (or FYROM...whatever) dating from the early Neolithic period. As far as I know swasticas are a signature of the presence of IE peoples on some territory. That means that IE peoples were present on the Balkans already in the early Neolithic times.
The early IE development is one of the fundamental postulates of the Continuity theory and it is confirmed by that archaeological discovery on the Balkans.
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Post by ordinary on May 14, 2004 7:28:20 GMT -5
www.culture.in.mk/story.asp?id=9682Important to note here is that the inscriptions are on clay tablets, as opposed to the inscriptions on rocks that have been found all over Macedonia. I think there have been over 1 million rock inscriptions of various nature discovered so far.
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Post by Artemidoros on May 14, 2004 19:50:32 GMT -5
I do not have a quote about that but following the logic of Continuity Theory, the foundation of Baltic languages arrised during the Neolithic migrations too. So, there shouldn't be ancestral land before the Metal ages. After the metal ages those languages arrised by mixing with some idioms of the Northern peoples. That the CT might be right show the discovered swasticas on clay seals found in R. Macedonia (or FYROM...whatever) dating from the early Neolithic period. As far as I know swasticas are a signature of the presence of IE peoples on some territory. That means that IE peoples were present on the Balkans already in the early Neolithic times. The early IE development is one of the fundamental postulates of the Continuity theory and it is confirmed by that archaeological discovery on the Balkans. Since the Baltic languages are the closest to the Slavic ones it is reasonable to assume they came from a neighbouring area. I only think the balkans would look very crowded with 4-5 branches of IE originating there. I also believe in the early presence of IE in the Balkans but the swastika is not an exclusively IE symbol. www.collectorsguide.com/fa/fa086.shtml
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Andrea
Full Member
IM ROY JE DA JEST TO VESNIYO - May they all have a paradise this springtime
Posts: 119
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Post by Andrea on May 16, 2004 12:01:02 GMT -5
Yes Artemidoros, but we don't live in Mexico...do we? So, the swastika sign in Europe (especially Balkans) means IE presence on that territory.
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Post by Artemidoros on May 16, 2004 13:18:53 GMT -5
Yes Artemidoros, but we don't live in Mexico...do we? So, the swastika sign in Europe (especially Balkans) means IE presence on that territory. Can you prove they have the copyright for Europe?
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Post by Aria88 on May 16, 2004 22:51:08 GMT -5
Andrea, the presence of swastikas is not sufficient proof to establish the existence of IEs anywhere. There need be quite a number of other clues before any scientific conclusion is made.
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Andrea
Full Member
IM ROY JE DA JEST TO VESNIYO - May they all have a paradise this springtime
Posts: 119
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Post by Andrea on May 17, 2004 3:29:05 GMT -5
If in archaeology were such things as "sufficient proofs" things would be much easier. Even in physics there is no such thing as "suffisient proof" of the theory. That is why theories develop. "Proofs" by themselfs are components of the deductive reasoning (prooving of theorems, lemmas...etc)...not of the inductive method...or the empirical one. In empirical sciences there is always some new experiment or finding that doesn't fit the mainstream theory and a process of modification begins. That is the path of science.
BUT, the presence of swasticas in Europe and the Balkans increases the probability that the IE people might dwelled on those territories at Neolithic times, since swasticas are thought to be one of the important IE signs when found in Europe.
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Post by Graeme on May 17, 2004 7:02:44 GMT -5
The Neolithic movement of people or agricultural techniques and animal husbandry, whichever is the case, took place thousands of years before the first intrusion of IE speech into Europe. The only things in common with IE speech and the Neolithics or Neolithic technology is that it originated in the east, outside of Europe. The swastika is a religious and cultural symbol or purely emblematic and may have been obtained through cultural exchange. That could of happened in the Middle East before the Neolithic expansion or then again it may have been used by IE speakers. Either way it cannot prove anything other than cultural and religious contact with other cultures not the presence of IE speakers in the Neolithic. The Slavic group of languages with its ties to Iranian is one of the last IE languages to enter Europe. As a European language group is a very junior member if you consider the present location of Slavic languages in Europe compared to Basque, Romance and Germanic languages.
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Post by ordinary on May 17, 2004 7:31:00 GMT -5
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Post by Graeme on May 17, 2004 8:10:31 GMT -5
There are heaps of megaliths in Malta: Mnajdra, Ggantija, Tarxien, Hagar Qim and the hypogeum are some. It is no big deal and does not signify much. The megalith builders, thought to look like Atlanto Mediterraneans, moved right through the Mediterranean zone through Iberia to Scandinavia. They were agriculturists who were very interested in astromical events and worshiped fertility symbols. They are shared by most Europeans and not significant to any particular European nationality, ethnic group or language group.
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Post by ordinary on May 18, 2004 5:35:23 GMT -5
I'm not suggesting that the observatory, or the megalith whatever you like better, is unique to that region. I'm only suggesting that it sheds a new light to the region's history, and I'm certain there's much more to come especially from the neolith. There is continuity of existence in this region until present day, and the sheer number of sites from this (and latter periods) is mind-boggling. This is especially valid for Macedonia. Anyway, www.culture.in.mk/story.asp?id=4568...the Sun "thing" has been there in continuity since forever.
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Post by labi on May 18, 2004 17:18:21 GMT -5
the fyroms fake macedonians are behind this. i dont know how they do it but they have ways of bribing people. some year ago the macedonians published a genetic study claiming that slavo-maces are the same as ancient maces in DNA and that greeks has ethiopian genes. i wouldnt trust anything the maces claim its total BS, with no facts at all. its similar to afrocenist claims. now regarding the crapy article i didnt bother to read all of it. all i have to say is if the slavs are natives or ancient in the balkans, shouldnt the greek language show some aciehnt contact from ancient "slavic" presence in the balkans? this applies for rumanian also. the answer is there is none. case closed.
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Post by ordinary on May 19, 2004 7:35:49 GMT -5
the fyroms fake macedonians are behind this. i dont know how they do it but they have ways of bribing people. some year ago the macedonians published a genetic study claiming that slavo-maces are the same as ancient maces in DNA and that greeks has ethiopian genes. i wouldnt trust anything the maces claim its total BS, with no facts at all. its similar to afrocenist claims. Magic Labi, it's all magic.
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Post by Artemisia on May 19, 2004 11:14:40 GMT -5
Didn't you know this, labi? When you have an artificial country like FYROM, its people will try to steal the historic legacy of their neighbors. If they don't have a history of their own, they invent it!
NO one in the West (or East) actually believes that the Slavo-FYROMites have any link with the ancient Macedonians.
Well, according to the FYROMites, some ancient Greek words and names are actually found in the FYROm language today. Names like Kopria, Pyrrhos, etc. Artemidoros listed some of them in a different thread and I had a good laugh. ;D
No descent historian actually believes that the Slavs came into the Balkans prior to 500 AD. It is written all over early Christian sources. The archaeological record also proves this.
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Post by labi on May 19, 2004 21:40:38 GMT -5
hehe i forgot to add that the latest fyroms attempt on identity theft was claiming that stefan dusan(the medevil serbian king) was a macedonian who conquered the serbs. im serious, some fyrom historian in canada wrote this. this people are a joke. many albanian historians also do such ridiculous claims but the maces are going to far. last year they tryed to claim mother teresa as macedonian. pirro is a greek name. some albanians also have it but theres also albanians with turkish and arab names, it doesnt mean its albanian.
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