|
Post by Melnorme on Feb 19, 2004 7:06:48 GMT -5
It is a fact that without the support of Mediterraneans, White Nationalism is headed nowhere: the Census (2000) reports that there are 26 million Americans with at least some Italian heritage. This doesn't include other Mediterraneans. The last thing White Nationalists need is tens of millions added onto their opposition. Think about it. I suppose Italian-Americans are especially important because they form a large percentage of the population in the urban east coast - while other European ethnicities tend to be spread more evenly throughout America's more rural heartland. www.niaf.org/research/2000_census_4.asp
|
|
|
Post by galvez on Feb 19, 2004 12:32:35 GMT -5
Galvez, the intentions that you attribute to the White Nationalists are on your mind and not in theirs. Many of those White Nationalists are of Southern European origin - I doubt that the surname «Scutari» can sound as Swedish - and so what you say about the issue is of no validity at all. So the presence of a few Southern Europeans among White Nationalists means WNs are pro-Southern European? You should hear what WNs say about Southern Europeans when they are not censored as on Stormfront. Perhaps you have spent too much time posting at Stormfront, with moderators giving you and other SEs protection from the more rabid elements. Perhaps you want to be coddled by superiors, hence your attraction to White Nationalism? The sad thing here is that you don't even sound like a White Nationalist, but like some Germanic-wannabe. The delusions of "Aryanism" come straight from Germany, particularly with the neo-Nazis. If you are going to imitate the Northern Europeans, at least imitate their traits that aren't so buffoonish. Is that what you are calling me and other Southern Europeans who have been forced to defend our people on White Nationalist forums? Our people are Socrates, Archimedes, Michelangelo, Velazquez, Dante, Pericles, Alexander the Great, Marcus Aurelius, Napoleon, Enrico Fermi, and on and on and on. They are not backwater types posting with "88" on their screennames and believing their ancestors were Asiatic nomadic warriors.
|
|
|
Post by galvez on Feb 19, 2004 12:36:55 GMT -5
But I am a racialist in the sense of preservationist, and there we might clash. Not at all. I also believe in preservation. In fact, White Nationalism is harmful because it will expose so many Italian-Americans to Anglos with Native American admixture by "equalizing" all European types. More recent European immigrants are likely to be purer, according to a study cited by Dienekes on his blog.
|
|
|
Post by xxx on Feb 20, 2004 5:59:26 GMT -5
So the presence of a few Southern Europeans among White Nationalists means WNs are pro-Southern European? You should hear what WNs say about Southern Europeans when they are not censored as on Stormfront. Perhaps you have spent too much time posting at Stormfront, with moderators giving you and other SEs protection from the more rabid elements. Those WNs are censored on Stormfront, only when it is too obvious the attack on Mediterraneans is rabid and violent, and then only to avoid having their true faces exposed. In contrast, Meds trying to defend themselves against these attacks with valid arguments are "questioned as divisive" and the threads are closed after their intervention, or their posts are tackled and not released, or they get a ban. A good example is that of Alex -Refuting Lies About Portugal-, who got banned. When I complained the moderators told me he was not banned, but he could only post on the General Rants forum. What's that if not the ugliest show of hyprocresy? They use a highly hypocritical standard and a doublespeak ( "you have a divisive agenda", "I question your motives", etc, are their well learned and favourite phrases to cut you off, which they repeat like parrots). I too have seen myself prevented from continuing exposing true facts. Notice, above all, how Kemp enjoys a special protection status, and only those threads which question him without a strong argumentation are allowed to continue. But when the arguments are good, too obvious, or strong, the moderators close the thread and "question your motives" (they know that leaves a sense of being an infiltrated enemy on the air), accuse you of being divisive (again, same trick), or of launching ad hominem attacks (an alternative which will preced banning). I suggest to have a look at VNN forums. The people is roughly the same, but the difference is that, contrary to Stormfront, there is no moderation and Nords can show their true face and feelings. That's what I suspect. No one group is free of having people full of complexes. Since the lies and attacks on Portugal are specially mean and vicious, I find this attitude specially sad from a Portuguese. The Portuguese I've happened to meet, both in real life and on the Internet, are very proud and of an excellent quality, but as I said no one group is free of having certain abnormal elements. See how most, if not all, of the Portuguese who have posted at one time on Stormfront no longer are around. Of course... why would you be among people who lie and insult your nation and fellow countrymen when you don't have a need for it? I am also starting to be fed up with this "White Nationalist" terminology. It is rather poor in significance. Many Nords stick to it as their only asset in life, since it gives a meaning to their otherwise sad and worthless lives. And a few Meds (hello Tautalos) stick to it as a means to get accepted by these Nords. It's like a big joke and a circus, and it has no future whatsoever. See how strong it is the anti-immigration and nationalist political party, Le Front National in France. And you don't get to see many French people on those forums. I say that any group or ideas geared towards the defense of racial and cultural homogeneity in any country must alienate itself from WN in order to achieve any goal or to be successful. White Nationalism is a joke and a burden. Sad, this is so sad. Impossible to reproduce out of the Mediterranean group. What a great heritage. You mean the prolet-aryans, right? Not just. The type of colonial Southern European who has lived for generations in countries of Southern and Central America, the descendents of the Portuguese and Spaniards, are likely to be purer than Anglo-Americans since they created closed societies where acceptance is based on racial standards. It was a South African who pointed me this fact. He complained that the international outcry against Apartheid was because it was written as laws and political standards, whereas -he said- there was no outcry against racial "separationness" in Central and Southern America as it had not been formulated as a political idea, and it was followed by the descendants of the Spanish and Portuguese in a natural and untold way. A friend of mine who went to live to one country in Central America, and who I've visited on one occasion, told me how it was there for him. As soon as he settled, and even before finally settling, he was automatically accepted as one of this reduced social group. According to his words, if all of a sudden you get involved with a non white girl as a girlfriend or wife, the rest won't tell you anything at all, they will simply start to consider you an outcast. And this has been so for hundred of years and it is still how these societies work nowadays. They do not need to have it written in a piece of paper, they do not need to give it a name, they do not even need to be told. They know it as their parents, grandparents, and rest of forebears knew. It comes as natural to them.
|
|
|
Post by Tautalos on Feb 20, 2004 8:22:03 GMT -5
So the presence of a few Southern Europeans among White Nationalists means WNs are pro-Southern European? Who said that? Did you read what I wrote? I explained before, quite well, that some White Nationalists do that. But they can not be taken as being the majority. And even if they were the majority, it would still be a fact that they are our relatives, either they like it or not. All that we have to do is to inform them. Believe me, it works. I have done that before, in a nordicist forum - Heathen Front - where virtually everybody was anti-Southern European. Also, even amongst them - Slavs and Germanics, and, in a minor extent, Celts - they discuss who is Aryan and who isn't. [Uqote]The sad thing here is that you don't even sound like a White Nationalist, but like some Germanic-wannabe. The delusions of "Aryanism"[/quote] Stick this in your head once and for all: «Aryanism» is not private property of the Germanics. «Aryanism», in the sense of «Indo-Europeanism», belongs to almost all the European Nations, as a principle of identity. I defended our people as well, in similar foruns, probably before you. But, contrary to you and Mynydd, I did not equated anti-Southern-European-Nordicists with Nordic Nationalists, nor did I adopted a divisionist form of observing Europe. You must learn to beat your brothers and cousins without killing or expelling them. Our people are Socrates, Archimedes, Michelangelo, Velazquez, Dante, Pericles, Alexander the Great, Marcus Aurelius, Napoleon, Enrico Fermi, and on and on and on, and Erik the Red, and Leif Erikson, and King Penda, and Widukind, and Shakespeare, and Goethe, and Heidegger, and the Balts who fought for their Religion agains the crusaders, and Padraic Pearson, and Yates, and Eamon de la Valera, and on and on and on. All the above mentioned men are heirs of the ethnic identity brought to Europe by those Asiatic nomadic warriors that you refer to.
|
|
|
Post by Dienekes on Feb 20, 2004 8:32:31 GMT -5
Stick this in your head once and for all: «Aryanism» is not private property of the Germanics. «Aryanism», in the sense of «Indo-Europeanism», belongs to almost all the European Nations, as a principle of identity.
|
|
|
Post by Tautalos on Feb 20, 2004 8:46:08 GMT -5
Socrates, Archimedes, Pericles, Alexander the Great are Greek, they're not your people. Incorrect. The Greeks never felt any affinity to either "Asiatic nomadic warriors" or to other Indo-European speakers. Nor did most of the other people in your list. The fact that they did not knew about their most archaic roots does not place them outside their proper family.
|
|
|
Post by xxx on Feb 20, 2004 9:17:25 GMT -5
Funny... Gálvez names figures as great as Socrates, Archimedes, Michelangelo, Velazquez, Dante, Pericles, Alexander the Great, Marcus Aurelius, Napoleon, Enrico Fermi, etc, and Tautalos responds adding a rogue like Erik the Red to that list. No wonder the World is going insane.
Dienekes, the nations of Southern Europe enjoy a Graeco-Roman cultural heritage and share many affinities of which we are, and rightly so, much proud of. Of course the glory and pride of Socrates, Alexander, Archimedes, Pericles and so many other great figures of the humankind belongs, primarily and above all, to the Greeks. Most of us here are Southern civilized people, so we are not going to try to steal any heritage through stupid claims.
|
|
|
Post by galvez on Feb 20, 2004 13:13:25 GMT -5
Socrates, Archimedes, Pericles, Alexander the Great are Greek, they're not your people. The message I tried to convey is that Southern Europeans are getting a raw deal by trading in their cultures (plural) for the perceived heritage of many White Nationalists, which revolves around imaginary nomadic warriors who entered Europe from Asia. They are giving away everything for nothing.
|
|
|
Post by Bluebox1 on Feb 20, 2004 13:55:56 GMT -5
Socrates, Archimedes, Pericles, Alexander the Great are Greek, they're not your people. That's pretty strange considering the fact that Greek blood flows through many peoples within the Southern European region. As a collective, Greeks are "our people" whether you like it or not. However, for arguments sake, what did "your people" the Greeks invent that hold weight over other Med peoples inventions? Really, what did Socrates, Archimedes, Pericles invent? We all know the works of Da Vinci, Michaelangelo, Volta, Marconi... these were not people that just sat around talking, they were go-getters and doers. Of course this is not to belittle our Greek neighbors however, the Greeks, unlike the Italians, have no modern inventors of note. How many Nobel Prizes have the Greeks won in modern times compared to Italians? Incorrect. The Greeks never felt any affinity to either "Asiatic nomadic warriors" or to other Indo-European speakers. Nor did most of the other people in your list. Greeks never felt affinity to other Greeks. They slaughtered each other and that's a fact.
|
|
|
Post by Kukul-Kan on Feb 20, 2004 14:49:07 GMT -5
That's pretty strange considering the fact that Greek blood flows through many peoples within the Southern European region. As a collective, Greeks are "our people" whether you like it or not. I don’t agree, besides with that analogy a Honduran Mestizo could claim for what’s done in Spain too. Modern Greeks are the only ones who can claim Greek philosophers, Mathematicians, Soldiers, artists etc as their own people. Other people, including Southern Europeans, can admire them follow their ideas if they please and recognize their thoughts have influenced the modern word to an unthinkable extent but saying all the achievements done within the Mediterranean basin belong to all the people that happen to live there as if there were some some sort of Mediterranean ethnic and cultural continuity and homogeneity sounds as stupid as the “Nordish” concept. Greeks are above all Greek not part of a “Mediterranean” mega-ethnos.
|
|
|
Post by sonofzeus on Feb 20, 2004 16:31:47 GMT -5
Bluebox1 ----------- Da Vinci," He always said by himself that everything he "found" came by the secret library of the Vatican(where many works of the Ancient Greeks can be found,by the library of Alexandria and not only). www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/5-8/features/F_Fly_Like_Birds.htmlwww.mos.org/leonardo/scientist.html"Of course this is not to belittle our Greek neighbors however, the Greeks,unlike the Italians, have no modern inventors of note." They have,I think Diienekes can post something.The teacher of Albert Einstein for an example was a Greek: "Konstantinos Karatheodoris was the math professor of the youthful Albert Einstein in Germany." "So, in order to honor him, Aristotle University in Thessaloniki will not only name its administration building after the man, but will also erect a sculptured bust of his likeness on campus. Karatheodoris, after all,was also instrumental in the establishment of Aristotle University. The distinguished mathematician was born in Berlin in 1873, where his father was a Greek ambassador and he died in Munich in 1950." www.ahepa20.org/~chapter505/tanea/200003/*EVENT IN MEMORY OF EINSTEIN'S GREEK MATH TEACHER KONSTANTINOS KARATHEODORIS* "An event will be held in Thessaloniki on Saturday, January 30 in memory of the teacher of Albert Einstein,mathematician Konstantinos Karatheodoris. The main speaker will be Polytechnic School of Xanthi assistant professor Michalis Kesoglidis and after the speech the late scientist will be honored with a special award." "It should be noted that Albert Einstein in his last interview had stated referring to his teacher that no one has asked him about his teacher who showed him the way to higher mathematics, both in terms of thought and research. He said characteristically that his great teacher was the incomparable Greek Konstantinos Karatheodoris to whom himself personally and the math science, the physics and the wisdom of our century owe everything" www.hri.org/news/greek/mpa/1999/99-01-28.mpa.htmlKonstantinos Karatheodoris,the teacher of Albert Einstein: www.smyrnialbum.s5.com/Konstantinos_Karatheodoris.htmThe greater synth musician right now is a Greek again, NASA use his music too. images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005YUNN.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg[/img] www.greece.gr/CULTURE/Music/mythodeanmeetsolympianzeus.stmwww.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005YUNN/102-6389953-1680928?v=glanceTHE MAN WITH THE HIGHEST IQ IN THE WORLD IS GREEK: www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=306826"How many Nobel Prizes have the Greeks won in modern times compared to Italians?" Just two with George Seferis and Odysseas Elytis.The westerns use to give _their_ Nobels to _their_ selves. "Greeks never felt affinity to other Greeks. They slaughtered each other and that's a fact." They felt the hyper version of affinity but they used fight their own selves too,like brothers do. As the Romans said: "We want everything by the Hellenes,except their intertribal wars". Now what rest of Europeans were when we had the Byzantine Empire?: members.fortunecity.com/fstav1/index.htmlThey were still Barbarians,except of the Romans. Kukul-Kan ------------- "Greeks are above all Greek not part of a Mediterranean mega-ethnos." Greeks above all are Greeks and then,genetically,according to the Greek Aristotelion University they luck 100 million Greek offsprings around the globe.
|
|
|
Post by Dienekes on Feb 20, 2004 17:35:54 GMT -5
That's pretty strange considering the fact that Greek blood flows through many peoples within the Southern European region. As a collective, Greeks are "our people" whether you like it or not. Greek blood does not a barbarian Greek make.
|
|
|
Post by Artemidoros on Feb 20, 2004 17:42:33 GMT -5
However, for arguments sake, what did "your people" the Greeks invent that hold weight over other Med peoples inventions? Really, what did Socrates, Archimedes, Pericles invent? We all know the works of Da Vinci, Michaelangelo, Volta, Marconi... these were not people that just sat around talking, they were go-getters and doers. Of course this is not to belittle our Greek neighbors however, the Greeks, unlike the Italians, have no modern inventors of note. Strictly speaking your statement is not true, the Greeks have contributed important inventions in recent times. Ever heard of the smear test (Pap test)? Know how many lives it has saved? Of course modern Greece can not be compared with Italy. Not in development, not in size, not in history. If you know a little bit about Greek history you will be aware of the reasons why modern Greeks have not fulfilled their potential. Very neighbourly and brotherly behaviour. Kick the Greeks while they are still trying to stand up. Of course we are your people like it or not. So it happens we are the lazy ones, not doers and go-getters. Which Nordicist forum did you pick that one from? When the Greeks smashed Benito's face in 1940 were they not doers? Did the Byzantine Empire defend Europe and civilization while the Greeks were sunning themselves? But of course you are not trying to belittle the Greeks, just have a go at Dienekes for a muddled statement he made. You only said And the Italians and other Meds have not? Yeah, right.
|
|
|
Post by xxx on Feb 20, 2004 17:45:37 GMT -5
Now, to everyone here, we are Spaniards, Greeks, Italians, Portuguese, Occitan (Southern French) or whatever nationality else. But we are also Mediterraneans, or Southern Europeans, whatever suits you better. I, as a Spaniard, am proud of the great discoveries and conquests of the Spaniards and our Empire. But I am also proud of the discoveries and navigations of the Portuguese and their Empire. And I am also proud of the Roman heritage and Civilization. And I am proud too of the Hellenic heritage and Civilization, or the Byzantine Empire, or whatever else achieved by my Greek, Italian, Portuguese, ... brothers and sisters (though I hate these words... they sound so americanish). As I am proud of the old Civilizations of the ancient Mediterraneans. Why should I settle for less?
Out there, on our own, we are pray for the hyenas (you know which ones). If we stand together, they have a big problem if they want us, because if we stand together they simply cannot win.
And K, there is no possible comparison of a Honduran Mestizo claiming kindness with a Spaniard on the one hand, and an Italian claiming kindness with a Greek on the other hand. The difference is too obvious to be taken seriously. Whatever has been done by a Mediterranean nation belongs primarily to that nation, but it is shared to a high extent by the rest of the Mediterranean nations. We don't live in an isolated world and we have "others" around us... and at our backs.
SoZ, you are right in that human achievements are usually the product of one person plus the knowledge gathered from others. No modern scientist of whatever nation, for example, could achieve a damned thing if there had no been many other scientists in his own nation and in other nations who left their knowledge for him to continue it. But Bluebox1 was making an extremely valid point.
If anyone wants a fight, then go out there and hunt a couple of hyenas, but don't waste your time with infights among Mediterranean people. We do need all the artillery.
|
|