"Milesians were masters of the sea"-Herodotus

[lurker4now]

i am searching for what Herodotus had called the most westerly poeple of europe called the Cynetes (Portugal)
and so anway on the very first book as i stared to read the ""Milesians" are mentoned
classics.mit.edu/Herodotus/history.1.i.html

"When the harvest was ripe on the ground he marched his army into Milesia to the sound of pipes and harps, and flutes masculine and feminine."

[Drooperdoo]

Lurker4now,
Don't fall into the trap of confusing similar-souinding--but unrelated--terms. You're not--I hope--trying to link the Irish legends of their mythical founder "Milesius" [from Spain] with the Hellenic city-state of Miletus [in Asia Minor].
In English, we conjugate Miletus into "Milesian," but that's not how it's conjugated in Greek. It only artificially sounds similar to the Milesius of Spain because you're Anglicizing it. The two terms are in fact unrelated.
So many people go in for the folk etymologies and are led astray--akin to thinking that Confederate General Robert E. Lee and martial arts legend Bruce Lee MUST be related because they're both called "Lee".

P.S.--Geneticists have definitively linked the Irish Y-chromosome to the Spanish Basque Y-chromosome. They're identical, so we KNOW that the initial Irish entered the British Isles from Spain [as their legend attests], but these two groups [Iberians and Irish] aren't genetically linked at all to Greeks or any city-states in Asia Minor.
You mention Herodotus. He makes history's earliest-known reference to what he calls "the Keltoi" [or "Celts"]. He doesn't place them in the British Isles, but in Spain. Check it out. If you can't make time to go to a library, Google it. Key in "Herodotus" and "Keltoi".

[lurker4now]

drooperdoo said:

Lurker4now,
Don't fall into the trap of confusing similar-souinding--but unrelated--terms. You're not--I hope--trying to link the Irish legends of their mythical founder "Milesius" [from Spain] with the Hellenic city-state of Miletus [in Asia Minor].
In English, we conjugate Miletus into "Milesian," but that's not how it's conjugated in Greek. It only artificially sounds similar to the Milesius of Spain because you're Anglicizing it. The two terms are in fact unrelated.
So many people go in for the folk etymologies and are led astray--akin to thinking that Confederate General Robert E. Lee and martial arts legend Bruce Lee MUST be related because they're both called "Lee".

P.S.--Geneticists have definitively linked the Irish Y-chromosome to the Spanish Basque Y-chromosome. They're identical, so we KNOW that the initial Irish entered the British Isles from Spain [as their legend attests], but these two groups [Iberians and Irish] aren't genetically linked at all to Greeks or any city-states in Asia Minor.
You mention Herodotus. He makes history's earliest-known reference to what he calls "the Keltoi" [or "Celts"]. He doesn't place them in the British Isles, but in Spain. Check it out. If you can't make time to go to a library, Google it. Key in "Herodotus" and "Keltoi".

I was Tautamo:
dodona.proboards35.com/index.cgi?board=history&action=display&thread=1116418156


The reason they say Ireland is related to Basque is due to hg1 the highest in Basqueland but all parts of Iberia is more than 50%+.

[hansel]

actually that's how it's conjugated in greek
miletus->milesian
milesian=someone from miletus

[Drooperdoo]

Hansel,
No, "milesian" is the English conjugation. The "ian" ending is English, not Greek. Greeks don't use "ian" to conjugate. Nor do they turn "t's" into "s's" for purposes of conjugation. English does this. Take the word "Mars". In English, the "s" is turned into a "t" for conjugation. Thus "Mars" turns into "Martial" [which means "Of or pertaining to 'Mars,' the God of War.]
So only in English does the word referring to the city-state of "Melitus" change artificially into something that resembles "Milesius".

[hansel]

yep dorians
ionians
etc...

[Drooperdoo]

Hansel,
The terms "Dorians," "Ioanians" are the English terms. Greeks don't pluralise with "s's". The Eastern Mediterranean pluralizes with i's. Like the English "barbarians" is "barbaroi".
Do you get what I'm saying?
I think you're not understanding me. For instance, Germans don't call themselves "Germans". They are "Deutsch". "German" is just the ENGLISH term for it. People from Spain don't call their country "Spain," but "Espana". "Spain" is the English term.
Likewise, Greeks don't conjugate "citizens from Miletus" to "Milesians". That's the English.

P.S.--Greeks don't call Americans "American," but "Amerikanoi". People from Russia aren't "Russians" but "Rusoi". Etc. Do you understand what I'm saying now? (Perhaps I wasn't making myself clear earlier.)

[lurker4now]

hansel said:

actually that's how it's conjugated in greek
miletus->milesian
milesian=someone from miletus

Mile Espain=Milesius=milesian

[The original name of Milesius of Spain was "Galamh" (gall: Irish, a stranger; amh, a negative affix), which means, no stranger: meaning that he was no stranger in Egypt, where he was called "Milethea Spaine," which was afterwards contracted to "Miló Spaine" (meaning the Spanish Hero), and finally to "Milesiius" (mileadh: Irish, a hero; Lat. miles, a soldier)

www.araltas.com/features/milesius.html

[Drooperdoo]

Lurker4Now,
Anthropology was done a great disservice when someone lazily decided to use the terms "Celt" and "Gaul" interchangeably. They're not. But for the past 200 years people have been encouraged to use one for the other.
But now dna is showing that the true Celts--found in Austria and Switzerland--aren't genetically related to the Irish at all.
The thing is: The Irish never referred to themselves as Celts. They call their own language "Gaelic," not Celtic.
All this Celt nonsense started in relative recent history. And now scholars are realizing it was a blunder.
The Spanish word for "Wales" is Gales. The so-called Celtic region of Spain is called "Galicia" [note the "Gaul" in Galicia].
Then there were the Gauls in France, who give the term "Gallic" to Frenchmen.
All of these people were Gauls, not Celts.

As for your contention that the Irish hero Milesius ever traveled across Europe and the Mediterranean--- I don't know.
Is it possible? --Of course.
Is it likely that he has anything to do with the Greek city-state, Miletus? --That's the unlikely part.
Now Greeks DID come into contact with Gauls. The "Gallations" are said to have been Hellenized Gauls. Gallatia is even mentioned in the Bible. [And these "Gaul-ations" were said to be taller than Greeks, with red hair and blue eyes.]
Were they Celts? --Probably not.
They were probably just what they called themselves--Gauls. A people that were driven further and further west, fleeing invaders until they ended up in Spain; and then, from Spain, the coast of France and the British Isles.

[lurker4now]

"celtic" =language=commen culture.

note in wiki someone makes an outright lie
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celt

Galicia is not celt language and as far as culture goes its not "celtic" by any means.

[lurker4now]

btw the word "celt" in irish means concealment and also in scottish form of dress or mantle designed hide or conceal =Kilt in english. celts called them selfs celts=hidden people its most likely do to religion. ceasar says it in the gallic wars

[hansel]

a milesian ia someone from miletus
is that too hard to figure;;

[Drooperdoo]

Hansel,
In ENGLISH, a person from the Anatolian city-state of Melitus is called a MILESIAN. In Greek they would have been called "Melitoi".
So only in English conjugation can you get the artificial resemblance between Melisians and Melisius. In Greek that 't' would never turn into the convenient 's' needed. In fact, the only two letters that correspond are the 'M' and 'L'. If you'll be good enough to notice "Melitus" starts with the letters "ME" and "Milesius" starts with the letters "MI".
And, as I've established, in Greek citizens of Melitus would have been Melitoi, not "Milesians". So that second "s" you need so badly for a coincidental resemblance to "Milesius" wouldn't exist in Greek.
That's pretty bad: Only two letters the same. Not a lot to hang a theory on.
Maybe you can conjugate it in different languages and get a whole new host of associations. In Latin "Mellus" is "honey". So . . . um . . does that irrefutably prove that citizens of Melitus were fond of the yummy yellow substance?
Hm. An interesting clue to pursue.
Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha

[hansel]

look dude the greek name for what u say melitus or militus or i dont i know what u like
it's militos (miletos and melitos ,whatever i use ,its the same for u)
and in greek a guy for militos is milisios or melisios (u know :Thales o Milesios)
u see the t turns into an s
know i dont know what u want but a milesian is a man from miletus

oh a request ,how is athens spelled in catalan?? atene;;;

[Milesian]

drooperdoo said:

Lurker4Now,
Anthropology was done a great disservice when someone lazily decided to use the terms "Celt" and "Gaul" interchangeably. They're not. But for the past 200 years people have been encouraged to use one for the other.
But now dna is showing that the true Celts--found in Austria and Switzerland--aren't genetically related to the Irish at all.
The thing is: The Irish never referred to themselves as Celts. They call their own language "Gaelic," not Celtic.

We have to be very careful here when interpreting facts.
DNA surveys found that modern day Irish & Modern day Austrians and Swiss are geneticaly distant relatively speaking. Fine.

The problem starts when one jumps to conclusions and then says - "Therefore the Irish are not Celts".

You simply can't say that with the scant evidence about genetic distance between the modern populations of these two areas. The logic has broken down here.

To be able to make that conclusion then we would have to be certain that the modern day populations of Austria and Switzerland are genetically the same as they were thousands of years ago in their Celtic times.
Otherwise, we cannot use them as the control population for judging who is and isn't Celtic.

It's historical fact that Austria and Switzerland have seen more migrations and conquests than Ireland has in it's geographic remoteness. Thus there is more chance that Ireland has a population continuity from 2000 years ago to modern times than Austria or Switzerland does.

If anything, that DNa survey is more likely to conclude that modern Austrians and Swiss are not Celtic, rather than say anything about the Irish due to the fact that the Irish are a more reliable control group



As for the word "Gael/Gal" it is to be found wherever there has been historical Celtic populations. From Gaul (France) Galicia (Ukraine & Spain), Galatia (Turkey), "Gaelic" (Ireland & Scotland).
There is certainly some connection.
The Celts didn't call themselves Celt, but it seems they named themselves by the "Gael/Gall" epithet amongst others.