Why study Sanskrit?...

[AWAR]

I'll tell you where I'm from, that's no problem, I just wonder why is it an issue for you?

[Artemidoros]

Pugnox said:

Now I have just one, two-part question for Artemidoros, and he won't have to take out twenty minutes of his precious time to answer it although it is highly probable that my time is much more objectively valuable than his time:

Artemidoros, what was the earliest age that you can remember yourself passionately hating Nazis? and what was the souce of your information?

It's funny, you don't even realise when you are being subjective. Anyway, I consider Nazism a plague and its devastating effects on Europe I can only compare with those of the Black Death. Nazi ideologues and propagandists should in my opinion be treated as infected carriers of the plague who actively seek to infect others. The realisation of the above came gradually through continuous reassessment of the universal position on Nazism using my family history and other material that I know to be true, as reference points. There are certain PC points of the universal position that I do not agree with.

[Slaven]

Hindi mentioned the Vedic Sankrit.

It is interesting that the word veda in the Lit. Slovenian means knowledge. For instance the phrase: se veda = it is known.

The change of the verb veda is: ve(da)m, ve(da)sh, ve(da), ve(da)mo, ve(da)te, ve(da)yo.

Also (dialectically) in Macedonian "to be veda" is "to be an expert in something","to have a large knowledge in some job" or to be very understandable as well as "light" or "enlightening".

[Artemidoros]

Pugnox wrote:

"Had I known before, Artemidoros, that you are an American, I wouldn't have wasted a single moment of my time suggesting that you see a psychiatrist for your anger issues as Americans, from their earliest moments are weened on Jewish television, and no amount of rational discussion with them will have any chance of weening them from their addiction any more than discussing the bad effects of heroin would with a drug addict."

Just to clear any misunderstandings I was born, brought up and educated in Greece. I (for now) live and work in London.

"No, not at all but only the way I spent much of my time between 1991-1994 getting a M.A. in South Asian Languages."

You have chosen the battleground, you also have the choice of how much effort you will put into defending your claims.

"Experts in the field are very much divided about this question with Indians giving earlier dates (and usually saying that the Aryans weren't even white) and most Western historians saying c. 1500 B.C. Let's assume that I agree with the later, for the sake of this discussion as it seems the best educated guess we have at this time."

You previously mentioned an Aryan civilization at 2,000 BC. Here is your quote:

"Aryan civilization in 2000 B.C., was, in terms of its ability to maintain its course, and to understand what social forces cause the decline of civilizations and protect itself against them, far beyond anything that has ever existed before or since. The modern Germans with their love of technological solutions to problems are a distant second."

Also, the precise phenotype and genotype of the Aryans (the ones that settled India, not the Nazi definition of Aryan) is not known. Neither do we know what sort of admixture they carried although there is evidence that links them with today's Europeans. Of course it would be interesting if you tried to prove they were unmixed NW Europeans or something similar.

"Yes, of course, but there is no clear evidence saying that it was founded by Dravidians either. Most Western historians believe that this civilization had fallen by the time the Aryans came into India c. 1500."

I agree, it is not certain though. My point is that the area was suitable for the development of civilization and the seeds were already there. I associate great civilizations with settled populations, the development of agriculture as a minimum, trade and circulation of ideas and innovations. You seem to believe nomadic pastoralists are the bearers of great civilizations, well in the case of India at least. Can you support your claim?

"If, however, The Great One would have won the Second World War, the organization that he created to answer these questions would have answered many of them by now. Instead, the Jews say to it that members of the Anenerbe (sp? Anyone know the correct spelling off-hand?) murdered all the top scientists who would have been able to produce results that the Jews don't want known."

I know you hate the Jews but can you please control your emotions. You are incoherent there.

"It had to have been almost immediately as the caste or "varna" (which means "color" in Sanskrit- did you know that by the way?)"

Yes I did, thank you all the same.

Art: "Can you demonstrate that the Sanscrit literature is the product of unmixed Aryans, since it has been transmitted orally for much longer that has been written down?"

Pug: "I'm unsure EXACTLY what you mean by this question so I'll answer it in two possible ways:"

I said Sanscrit literature, I meant Sanskrit. I hope you can forgive a spelling mistake to someone whose mother tongue is not English. Part of the Rig-Veda goes back to 1,000 BC (possibly) but the oldest known manuscript is from the 15th century AD. You ascribe all the great ideas to the early period. Your words:

"The literature written in the Sanskrit language is enormous, much larger than the combined existent literature in Latin and Greek combined. There is nothing that Greece, Rome, or even the modern West, for that matter, has ever thought that wasn't first thought by the ancient Aryans and recorded in the Sanskrit language"

Can you give some examples? Otherwise the ideas and concepts can more easily be ascribed to the mixed north Indian population of a later period (OK maybe exclude the tribals) or to foreign influence. It is known that the first post-Aryan flourishing of civilization in India started around 500 BC and there was established trade with Persia and elsewhere. A little later the Indians were in close contact with the Greeks of the Hellenistic states. You are making claims that are so extraordinary only Hindi seems able to match them. You had better have the artillery or the stukas (sp) to defend them.

[HINDI]

offtopic :



India on the rise: BusinessWeek

New York, December 1
BusinessWeek, a New York-based news magazine, in a laudatory cover story, has said that new roads, schools and jobs are blowing fresh hope in India’s economy.

“India has always had brilliant, educated people,” the four-part story quoted tech-trend forecaster Paul Saffo of the Institute for the Future, based in Menlo Park, California, as saying. “Now Indians are taking the lead in colonising cyberspace.”<br>
China at one time drove down costs in manufacturing and Wal-Mart Stores Inc in retail. India may, in some cases already, depress costs in the services sector. “What happened in manufacturing is happening in services” said Azim H. Premji, Chairman of Wipro Ltd.

“That raises a lot of social issues for the USA.”<br>
By some estimates, there are more IT engineers in Bangalore (1,50,000) than in Silicon Valley (120,000). About one-third of new IT development work for big US companies is done overseas, with India taking the lion’s share, the weekly said in its December 8 issue.

Despite last month’s move by Indiana, a mid-western state in the USA, which cancelled a $ 15 million IT contract with the Tatas, other states are increasingly using India to manage everything from accounting to food-stamp programs. Even the US Postal Service is considering taking work there. These moves are expected to have a positive effect on the USA.

“Harnessing Indian brainpower will greatly boost American tech and services leadership by filling a big projected shortfall in skilled labour” the magazine said, with the cover story titled “The Rise of India.”<br>
American companies outsourcing to India pay about $ 10,000 a year to a top engineering graduate from any IIT. “Outsourcing work will spur innovation, job creation and dramatic increases in productivity that will be passed on to the consumer,” Rajat Gupta, an IIT-Delhi graduate and senior partner at consulting firm McKinsey and Co, said.

By 2008, McKinsey forecast, IT services and back-office work in India will swell five fold, to a $ 57 billion annual export industry, employing four million people and accounting for seven per cent of India’s GDP. That growth is inspiring more of the best and brightest to stay home rather than migrate. This year about 20,000 tax returns of Americans were prepared in India and the number is expected to go up to 2,00,000 next year.

The magazine warned that the country’s transformation is still a work in progress. The problems of illiteracy, poor infrastructure and bad governance persist. But a commentative piece concludes the cover story by citing the Indian peoples newly acquired self-confidence.

By 2015, some 55 per cent of Indians will be under the age of 20, and this generation will have grown up in an economy where roads like the Pune highway are a rule — not an exception. “Unlike the generation before them, young Indians are no longer obsessed with India’s poverty, but with its future,” the commentary noted. “They give India a fighting chance.” — UNI

[HINDI]

34% of MICROSOFT employees are Indians

28% of IBM employees are Indians

17% of INTEL employees are Indians

There are 3.22 Million Indians in America

38% of Doctors in America are Indians.

12% of Scientists in America are Indians.

36% of NASA employees are Indians.

13% of XEROX employees are Indians

23% of Indian Community in America is having Green Card Some of these facts may be known to you.

Source : recently published in a German Magazine, dealing with WORLD HISTORY.

Few More Facts...



Silicon Valley alone contains over 1,00,000 Indian millionaires.

Sabeer Bhatia invented HOTMAIL and sold it to Microsoft for $400 million.

Victor Menezes is No. 2 in CITIBANK.

Shailesh Mehta is CEO of Providian, a top US financial services company.

Also at or near the top are Rakesh Gangwal of US Air, Jamshd Wadia of Arthur Andersen & Aman Mehta of Hong Kong Shanghai Bank

Rono Dutta has become head of the United Airlines, The biggest airlines in the world.

Rana Talwar has become head of the Standard Chartered Bank PLC, One of the biggest multinational banks in Britain, while still in his 40's.

Rajat Gupta is head of MCKINSEY the biggest management consultancy firm in the world. He now advises the biggest multinationals on how to run their business.

Lakhsmi Mittal has become the biggest steel baron in the world with steel plants in the US, Kazakhstan, Germany, Mexico, Trinidad & Indonesia.

Subash Chandra of Zee TV has become a global media king. One of the few to beat Rupert Murdoch.

You may not have heard of 48 year old Guru Raj Deshpande. His communications company SYCAMORE, is currently valued by the US stock market at over $ 30 billion, making him perhaps the richest Indian in the world.

Arun Netravali has become president of Bell Labs, one of the biggest research and development centers in the world with 30,000 inventions and several nobel prizes to it's credit.

[HINDI]

More facts for ProdigalSon

www.abhishek.mybravenet.com/facts%20about%20india.htm



Q. Who is the co-founder of Sun Microsystems?

A. Vinod Khosla




Q. Who is the creator of Pentium chip (needs no introduction as 90% of the today’s computers run on it)?

A. Vinod Dahm


Q. Who is the third richest man on the world?

A. According to the latest report on Fortune Magazine, it is Azim Premji, who is the CEO of Wipro Industries. The Sultan of Brunei is at 6th position now.





Q. Who is the founder and creator of Hotmail (Hotmail is world’s No.1 web based email program)?

A. Sabeer Bhatia





Q. Who is the president of AT & T-Bell Labs (AT & T-Bell Labs is the creator of program languages such as C, C++, Unix to name a few)?

A. Arun Netravalli





Q. Who is the GM of Hewlett Packard?

A. Rajiv Gupta





Q. Who is the new MTD (Microsoft Testing Director) of Windows 2000, responsible to iron out all initial problems?

A. Sanjay Tejwrika



Q. Who are the Chief Executives of CitiBank, Mckensey & Stanchart?

A. Victor Menezes, Rajat Gupta, and Rana Talwar.

The nationality of all of these people is the same - INDIAN

Q. Indians are the wealthiest among all ethnic groups in America, even faring better than the whites and the natives.

There are 3.22 millions of Indians in USA (1.5% of population). YET,

38% of doctors in USA are Indians.

12% scientists in USA are Indians.

36% of NASA scientists are Indians.

34% of Microsoft employees are Indians.

28% of IBM employees are Indians.

17% of INTEL scientists are Indians.

13% of XEROX employees are Indians.







You may know some of the following facts. These facts were recently published in a German magazine, which deals with WORLD HISTORY FACTS ABOUT INDIA.



1. India never invaded any country in her last 1000 years of history.



2. India invented the Number system. Aryabhatta invented ‘zero.’





3. The world’s first University was established in Takshila in 700BC. More than 10,500 students from all over the world studied more than 60 subjects. The University of Nalanda built in the 4th century BC was one of the greatest achievements of ancient India in the field of education.



4. According to the Forbes magazine, Sanskrit is the most suitable language for computer software.





5. Ayurveda is the earliest school of medicine known to humans.



6. Although western media portray modern images of India as poverty striken and underdeveloped through political corruption, India was once the richest empire on earth.





7. The art of navigation was born in the river Sindh 5000 years ago. The very word “Navigation” is derived from the Sanskrit word NAVGATIH.



8. The value of pi was first calculated by Budhayana, and he explained the concept of what is now known as the Pythagorean Theorem. British scholars have last year (1999) officially published that Budhayan’s works dates to the 6th Century, which is long before the European mathematicians.





9. Algebra, trigonometry and calculus came from Inida. Quadratic equations were by Sridharacharya in the 11th Century; the largest numbers the Greeks and the Romans used were 106 whereas Indians used numbers as big as 1053.



10. According to the Gemological Institute of America, up until 1896, India was the only source of diamonds to the world.





11. USA based IEEE has proved what has been a century-old suspicion amongst academics that the pioneer of wireless communication was Professor Jagdeesh Bose and not Marconi.



12. The earliest reservoir and dam for irrigation was built in Saurashtra.





13. Chess was invented in India.



14. Sushruta is the father of surgery. 2600 years ago he and health scientists of his time conducted surgeries like cesareans, cataract, fractures and urinary stones. Usage of anaesthesia was well known in ancient India.





15. When many cultures in the world were only nomadic forest dwellers over 5000 years ago, Indians established Harappan culture in Sindhu Valley (Indus Valley Civilisation).



16. The place value system, the decimal system was developed in India in 100 BC.





Quotes about India.
We owe a lot to the Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made.

Albert Einstein.







India is the cradle of the human race, the birthplace of human speech, the mother of history, the grandmother of legend and the great grand mother of tradition. Mark Twain.







If there is one place on the face of earth where all dreams of living men have found a home from the very earliest days when man began the dream of existence, it is India.

Frech scholar Romain Rolland.







India conquered and dominated China culturally for 20 centuries without ever having to send a single soldier across her border.

Hu Shih

(Former Chinese Ambassador to USA)



actually this list is endless

[HINDI]

AWAR I was just interested...

www.stephen-knapp.com/indian_contributions_to_american_progress.htm

[Melnorme]

38% of doctors in USA are Indians.

This doesn't sound right.

[HINDI]

Well, according to most of the websites listed here these are facts..I don't know why they should be lying...besides I live in the Netherlands...

search.yahoo.com/search?p=facts+on+India+and+Indians&ei=UTF-8&fr=fp-tab-web-t&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt

[TSUNTZU]

AWAR said:

You can tell us all about your opinions on how race-mixing influenced ancient civilizations, but follow these guidelines when you do.

1. Don't insult any nation or race, or you will be banned.

So far, you have insulted me personally w/o provocation.

AWAR said:

2. Don't falsify historical sources. ( god knows Kemp likes to do that )

Another personal attack on another individual. What books have you written to counter Kemps hypothesis? I don't need to falsify anything to make my point.

AWAR said:

3. Don't use references from pseudo-science and pseudo-history.

Vague and ambiguous. What is a pseudo-science? What constitutes a pseudo-science? Seems arbitrary.

AWAR said:

4. Draw as many parallels to modern society as you want, but stay on topic ( and no insults ).

Stay on topic. You seem to lack understanding on this point because constantly you don't comprehend my replies to others and make assertions about my views that aren't quite right.

AWAR said:

5. Try to answer the posters who are bound to try to rip your 'article' and refute your opinions.

We can make this a fruitful discussion after all. I myself do not believe that race-mixing destroyed any civilization, at least not on the DNA level. I believe that where it happened it had more of a cultural impact.

Fruitful discussion is what you try to suppress on my part. Practice what you preach. As for race-mixing not destroying any civilization, what civilization from the distant past benefited from racemixing and is still around to celebrate it on mtv or the TELEVITZ?

[Slaven]

Whoever attacks the Indian contribution to the human knowledge and culture is either ignorant numero uno or has a hidden propaganda.

Hindi, you are right...fellow.

You just forgot to mention the Indian Nobel Prize winner Subramanian Chandrasekhar whose contribution in astrophysics was the determination of the relations between the critical masses of stars and their ultimate destiny: white dwarf, neutron star or black hole.

[HINDI]

Thank you Slaven...the facts that alot of Northern Indians like me carry Slav genes makes me proud..I love Slavic people and Slavic women are among the most gorgeous in the world.

[Slaven]

Thank you Slaven...the facts that alot of Northern Indians like me carry Slav genes makes me proud..I love Slavic people and Slavic women are among the most gorgeous in the world.

CHEERS !!!

[AWAR]

HINDI said:

Thank you Slaven...the facts that alot of Northern Indians like me carry Slav genes makes me proud..I love Slavic people and Slavic women are among the most gorgeous in the world.

Aint that a truth