German officers 'knew of Holocaust' (article)

[anodyne]

scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=2385262005

I've been sitting on this one for awhile since I'm tired of the topic and everything that comes with it. But it's a very important artilce so here it goes:

HIGH-ranking German officers knew much more about Adolf Hitler's plans to murder millions of Jews than previously thought, according to newly revealed transcripts of conversations between captured generals.

During the Second World War, British intelligence secretly bugged the cells occupied by some of the most senior German army, navy and air force commanders who had been captured by the Allies.


The transcripts have only recently been made available to researchers and show that:

• Senior Luftwaffe officers mused together at the end of 1943 that millions of Jews had already been killed.

• General Dietrich von Choltitz, the German commander who defied Hitler's orders by not allowing Paris to be destroyed, admitted that he had been involved in killing Jews;

• Field Marshal Erwin Rommel had been fully briefed about the 1944 attempt to kill the Nazi leader, and refused to betray the plotters.

The British bugging operation took place in the then country estate of Trent Park on the north-west outskirts of London, in a building now used by the University of Middlesex.

Senior German officers were lulled into a false sense of security by being allowed to live in relative luxury, even sometimes having their adjutants and batmen to attend to them.

However, all the time the British were bugging their cells in an effort to get the Germans to reveal vital military secrets about chains of commands, tactics and who made the decisions in the Nazi war machine.

The transcripts, which have been published in Germany by Sönke Neitzel, professor of modern history at the University of Mainz, contradict the traditional image of senior German officers as having little or no knowledge of the mass-killings.

One of the most dramatic revelations concerns Choltitz, the German general in command of Paris in 1944 as the Allied armies closed in.

He became known as the "Unlikely Saviour of Paris" when he defied a direct order of Hitler who demanded that the city should be destroyed rather than fall to the Allies. He was captured and sent to Trent Park.

Speaking of an earlier episode in the war, Choltitz - who had previously been stationed on the Eastern Front - said: "The gravest task I ever undertook, and I did it at the time strictly, was the liquidation of the Jews."

Another clue to the Holocaust being common knowledge was a conversation involving Luftwaffe general Georg Neuffer, who was captured in North Africa in 1943, in which they discussed later that year how many Jews had been killed. Neuffer said: "It must be three million by now."

The transcripts also point to closer links between Rommel and the plotters who attempted to kill Hitler in 1944. It was previously known that the conspirators asked Rommel whether he would take over if Hitler were no longer alive to run the Nazi state, but never told him of their plans to bomb the Führer.

However, a conversation involving General Heinrich Eberbach, who worked closely with Rommel in 1944, suggests Rommel had been fully told about the plans and kept them to himself.

Neitzel, whose book has been hailed as an important development in studying the war, said: "This is further evidence that knowledge of the atrocities was much more widespread among senior officers than many wanted to admit after the war. They all wanted to say: 'I was just a simple soldier.' This evidence defies that."

Asked why the admissions had not been used to bring more officers to trial for war crimes, he said: "It is clear that the British wanted to protect their sources of information and the fact that they had bugged the conversations. It would have been difficult to use at the trials anyway because it was not precise enough. Having someone say that they 'killed Jews' would not be enough at a trial. If they had given a date and place it could have been linked to witnesses and charges brought."

Dr Christoph Dartmann, a lecturer in European History at Aberdeen University, said: "This is a blow against the sanitised Hollywood image of the German army as a clean army totally removed from the atrocities."

[dukeofpain]

1943???... Funny. They'd have this proof, which could be justifiably used for torture to get information, so as to find out where the camps were, and bomb the troops stationed there. Which never happened, by the time they got to Europe it was "too late". And likewise once they [Americans and British] actually got to these "camps" (in Germany) they started lying. They made propaganda videos of Germans and dissidents that died from typhus, typhoid fever and ironically; dehydration, because of a British air raid that disabled the water supply. They made up absurdly fantastic stories of the inhumanity in the camps to use as "evidence" at trial. And to this day they withhold various documents that are paramount in imprtance of having an honest picture of history (those that have not all ready been destroyed), i.e., like say those relating to German POW camps post war, and the 2 million women and children that died en route to Germany. Yet they expect people to believe this as evidence, from the trustworthy American and British and a professor that himself would be fair-game for the oligarchies in the country he lives, if he was to start "revising" even minute details related to the jews.

They never released the tapes, nor did they supply anything to substantiate these tapes, they never used these tapes at war crime trials, and this is "proof" of senior officers complicity in Hitlers grand plan? They had a few different methods of evidence gathering, one being "either tell us what we want to hear, or face the gallows", as was the case of Erik Von Dem Bach's testimony, which decades later was rebutted as he explained that his life was on the line and the only thing that concerned him at that point in time was his own personal survival, not the personal survival of people whom he helped condemn to death with lies.
Another was : Tell us what want to hear, or die a torturous death in the soviet union. These tapes, scratch that, "transcripts" are even less believable, coming out 60 years hence, and completely unverifiable.

[Crimson Guard]

Look I'am not "Holocaust denier persay at all,as Gypsies,Communists,Socialists Jews,criminals ect where put into Concentration Camps for detainment.The Nazi's as evidence to, honestly tried to ship the jews out of Nazi Germany during the 1930's,I think some of the Ships where Turned away by the USA.The Jews where given a lot of time and knew of the consequences of staying where they werent no longer welcome.By 1940's the Nazi's tried sending them off to some colony in Madagascar or someplace.

Of cause, I'am not making the Nazi's out to be Angels ,as theirs no such thing.

But their is alot of shady business involved.Like Experts testing the "Gas Showers" and found no traces of poison nor such chambers would've worked nor the methods of disposal be realistic..

I do not like the treatment of people who honesty question the "Holocaust",as these people are usually black listed or worse sued and thrown behind bars among other things.

So much for Freedom and Freedom of Information & Speech ect. Very Strange things going on in this world.

[anodyne]

dukeofpain said:

1943???... Funny. They'd have this proof, which could be justifiably used for torture to get information, so as to find out where the camps were, and bomb the troops stationed there. Which never happened, by the time they got to Europe it was "too late". And likewise once they [Americans and British] actually got to these "camps" (in Germany) they started lying. They made propaganda videos of Germans and dissidents that died from typhus, typhoid fever and ironically; dehydration, because of a British air raid that disabled the water supply. They made up absurdly fantastic stories of the inhumanity in the camps to use as "evidence" at trial. And to this day they withhold various documents that are paramount in imprtance of having an honest picture of history (those that have not all ready been destroyed), i.e., like say those relating to German POW camps post war, and the 2 million women and children that died en route to Germany. Yet they expect people to believe this as evidence, from the trustworthy American and British and a professor that himself would be fair-game for the oligarchies in the country he lives, if he was to start "revising" even minute details related to the jews.

They never released the tapes, nor did they supply anything to substantiate these tapes, they never used these tapes at war crime trials, and this is "proof" of senior officers complicity in Hitlers grand plan? They had a few different methods of evidence gathering, one being "either tell us what we want to hear, or face the gallows", as was the case of Erik Von Dem Bach's testimony, which decades later was rebutted as he explained that his life was on the line and the only thing that concerned him at that point in time was his own personal survival, not the personal survival of people whom he helped condemn to death with lies.
Another was : Tell us what want to hear, or die a torturous death in the soviet union. These tapes, scratch that, "transcripts" are even less believable, coming out 60 years hence, and completely unverifiable.

Did you even read the entire article? You seem to want to dismiss this based on nothing but your own assumptions.

[anodyne]

Like Experts testing the "Gas Showers" and found no traces of poison nor such chambers would've worked nor the methods of disposal be realistic..

Crimson, do you mean Leuchter?

[Drooperdoo]

I just read an article on the torture of Adolf Eichmann. He was systematically beaten and tortured and only then did he "testify" to what his torturers told him to say: That the Nazis had killed 6 million Jews.
Later--famously--Eichmann said, "I didn't know that so many were killed. I only knew once they [the interrogators] told me."

Yet Eichmann's testiomony is constantly used by advocates of "proof" of the 6 million number.

It's mentioned in this article called How the British Obtained the 'Confessions' of Rudolf Hess: www.rense.com/general68/hoss.htm

[anodyne]

Drooperdoo, what does this have to do with the article? Eichmann wasn't captured by the Brits. He was captured by Israeli Mossad agents years after the war.

[Drooperdoo]

Anodyne,
Read the article. Eichmann and Rudolf Hess were both tortured. The Brits used English Jews to "interrogate" Hess. So both men were in fact tortured by Jews and forced to sign phony 'confessions'.

P.S.--Regarding the "crematoria" and disputed gas-showers, read the work of Dr. Carlo Mattogno. He's an expert in the field, and he is the bane of all purveyors of the Holocaust orthodoxy. It's hard for them to "disprove" him since he's an expert in the field and they're not; so many professional intellectual hitmen who go after "Holocaust revisionists" usually ignore him altogether because his work is so hard to disprove.
Many have made attempts, though. But read some of his work. It makes you wonder.
One must remember, though, that the official Auschwitz memorial museum recently reduced the numbers of those who died there. As a direct result of the revisionists, the government launched an invesitigation--and has since removed the plaque saying that 4 million died at Auschwitz [as was previously claimed]. Now the figure--based on actual documents--is around 1 million [including all prisoners, not just Jews] and a new plaque commemorates that.
So, in that one case, the revisionists were actually vindicated.
So it's not all about "evil Jew-haters". Sometimes it's a legitimate search for the truth as it's obscured by decades of propaganda and emotionalism.

P.P.S.--It also shows to neo-Nazis that the Jews aren't in control of everything and averse to corrections, where historians find actual documents. Auschwitz made the correction--something unthinkable to the antisemite mind, which can only conceive of the directors as controlled puppets of the Zionists.

[dukeofpain]

anodyne said:

dukeofpain said:

1943???... Funny. They'd have this proof, which could be justifiably used for torture to get information, so as to find out where the camps were, and bomb the troops stationed there. Which never happened, by the time they got to Europe it was "too late". And likewise once they [Americans and British] actually got to these "camps" (in Germany) they started lying. They made propaganda videos of Germans and dissidents that died from typhus, typhoid fever and ironically; dehydration, because of a British air raid that disabled the water supply. They made up absurdly fantastic stories of the inhumanity in the camps to use as "evidence" at trial. And to this day they withhold various documents that are paramount in imprtance of having an honest picture of history (those that have not all ready been destroyed), i.e., like say those relating to German POW camps post war, and the 2 million women and children that died en route to Germany. Yet they expect people to believe this as evidence, from the trustworthy American and British and a professor that himself would be fair-game for the oligarchies in the country he lives, if he was to start "revising" even minute details related to the jews.

They never released the tapes, nor did they supply anything to substantiate these tapes, they never used these tapes at war crime trials, and this is "proof" of senior officers complicity in Hitlers grand plan? They had a few different methods of evidence gathering, one being "either tell us what we want to hear, or face the gallows", as was the case of Erik Von Dem Bach's testimony, which decades later was rebutted as he explained that his life was on the line and the only thing that concerned him at that point in time was his own personal survival, not the personal survival of people whom he helped condemn to death with lies.
Another was : Tell us what want to hear, or die a torturous death in the soviet union. These tapes, scratch that, "transcripts" are even less believable, coming out 60 years hence, and completely unverifiable.

Did you even read the entire article? You seem to want to dismiss this based on nothing but your own assumptions.

Yes it's more "proof" of germans being Hitler's "willing executioners". Proof that is only now coming to light, 60 some years later by known liars. This sentence, explaining why it is this seemingly solid evidence is only now coming out, is especially laughable:

"difficult to use at the trials anyway because it was not precise enough."

As if the "Trials" were actually trials, and not the dog and pony show, that it in reality it was.

[Educate Me]

eichmann was captured in argentina, where he lived a normal life with a fake indentity for 10 years, his last words were

"Long live Germany. Long live Austria. Long live Argentina. These are the countries with which I have been most closely associated and I shall not forget them. I had to obey the rules of war and my flag. I am ready"


lol


mengele was also in argentina, he worked in a toy factory, believe it or not.

[anodyne]

1) I'll take a look at Mottogno.

2) I don't take Jeff Rense seriously. Although, he does link some interesting articles but I wouldn't waste a minute listening to his program.

[dukeofpain]

drooperdoo said:

Anodyne,
Read the article. Eichmann and Rudolf Hess were both tortured. The Brits used English Jews to "interrogate" Hess. So both men were in fact tortured by Jews and forced to sign phony 'confessions'.

P.S.--Regarding the "crematoria" and disputed gas-showers, read the work of Dr. Carlo Mattogno. He's an expert in the field, and he is the bane of all purveyors of the Holocaust orthodoxy. It's hard for them to "disprove" him since he's an expert in the field and they're not; so many professional intellectual hitmen who go after "Holocaust revisionists" usually ignore him altogether because his work is so hard to disprove.
Many have made attempts, though. But read some of his work. It makes you wonder.
One must remember, though, that the official Auschwitz memorial museum recently reduced the numbers of those who died there. As a direct result of the revisionists, the government launched an invesitigation--and has since removed the plaque saying that 4 million died at Auschwitz [as was previously claimed]. Now the figure--based on actual documents--is around 1 million [including all prisoners, not just Jews] and a new plaque commemorates that.
So, in that one case, the revisionists were actually vindicated.
So it's not all about "evil Jew-haters". Sometimes it's a legitimate search for the truth as it's obscured by decades of propaganda and emotionalism.

P.P.S.--It also shows to neo-Nazis that the Jews aren't in control of everything and averse to corrections, where historians find actual documents. Auschwitz made the correction--something unthinkable to the antisemite mind, which can only conceive of the directors as controlled puppets of the Zionists.

Just like how he "commited sudicide". When in reality, suicide commited him.

[wadad]

dukeofpain said:

drooperdoo said:

Anodyne,
Read the article. Eichmann and Rudolf Hess were both tortured. The Brits used English Jews to "interrogate" Hess. So both men were in fact tortured by Jews and forced to sign phony 'confessions'.

P.S.--Regarding the "crematoria" and disputed gas-showers, read the work of Dr. Carlo Mattogno. He's an expert in the field, and he is the bane of all purveyors of the Holocaust orthodoxy. It's hard for them to "disprove" him since he's an expert in the field and they're not; so many professional intellectual hitmen who go after "Holocaust revisionists" usually ignore him altogether because his work is so hard to disprove.
Many have made attempts, though. But read some of his work. It makes you wonder.
One must remember, though, that the official Auschwitz memorial museum recently reduced the numbers of those who died there. As a direct result of the revisionists, the government launched an invesitigation--and has since removed the plaque saying that 4 million died at Auschwitz [as was previously claimed]. Now the figure--based on actual documents--is around 1 million [including all prisoners, not just Jews] and a new plaque commemorates that.
So, in that one case, the revisionists were actually vindicated.
So it's not all about "evil Jew-haters". Sometimes it's a legitimate search for the truth as it's obscured by decades of propaganda and emotionalism.

P.P.S.--It also shows to neo-Nazis that the Jews aren't in control of everything and averse to corrections, where historians find actual documents. Auschwitz made the correction--something unthinkable to the antisemite mind, which can only conceive of the directors as controlled puppets of the Zionists.

Just like how he "commited sudicide". When in reality, suicide commited him.

Are you saying he was murdered?

[anodyne]

Yes it's more "proof" of germans being Hitler's "willing executioners". Proof that is only now coming to light, 60 some years later by known liars. This sentence, explaining why it is this seemingly solid evidence is only now coming out, is especially laughable:

ummm. .what would be the agenda of letting out government information out now? hell, info regarding FDR came out decades later.

"difficult to use at the trials anyway because it was not precise enough."

As if the "Trials" were actually trials, and not the dog and pony show, that it in reality it was.

Uh huh. Adults are discussing. That means you should be silent. You have nothing to add.

[anodyne]

dukeofpain said:

drooperdoo said:

Anodyne,
Read the article. Eichmann and Rudolf Hess were both tortured. The Brits used English Jews to "interrogate" Hess. So both men were in fact tortured by Jews and forced to sign phony 'confessions'.

P.S.--Regarding the "crematoria" and disputed gas-showers, read the work of Dr. Carlo Mattogno. He's an expert in the field, and he is the bane of all purveyors of the Holocaust orthodoxy. It's hard for them to "disprove" him since he's an expert in the field and they're not; so many professional intellectual hitmen who go after "Holocaust revisionists" usually ignore him altogether because his work is so hard to disprove.
Many have made attempts, though. But read some of his work. It makes you wonder.
One must remember, though, that the official Auschwitz memorial museum recently reduced the numbers of those who died there. As a direct result of the revisionists, the government launched an invesitigation--and has since removed the plaque saying that 4 million died at Auschwitz [as was previously claimed]. Now the figure--based on actual documents--is around 1 million [including all prisoners, not just Jews] and a new plaque commemorates that.
So, in that one case, the revisionists were actually vindicated.
So it's not all about "evil Jew-haters". Sometimes it's a legitimate search for the truth as it's obscured by decades of propaganda and emotionalism.

P.P.S.--It also shows to neo-Nazis that the Jews aren't in control of everything and averse to corrections, where historians find actual documents. Auschwitz made the correction--something unthinkable to the antisemite mind, which can only conceive of the directors as controlled puppets of the Zionists.

Just like how he "commited sudicide". When in reality, suicide commited him.

hahhahah.. please tell us why? What would be the benefit.

I was right. You have nothing to add but please amuse me.