Article - the arab slave trade

[sublime]

The arab slave trade

This slave trade pre-dates Islam and involved the slavery of african negroes.

[murphee]

It is definitely worth reading.

[berschneider]

sublime said:

The arab slave trade

This slave trade pre-dates Islam and involved the slavery of african negroes.

Actually, the article says that the Arab slave trade and Islam are contemporaries (" It begins in the 7th century AD as Arabs and other Asians poured into Northern and Eastern Africa under the banner of Islam, either converting or subjugating the African societies they came upon") .

I think most Europeans came into contacts with blacks through Arab and Turkish slave markets. Great grand father of Alexander Pushkin, early 19 century Russian poet and prose writer, was a black male purchased in a slave market and sent as a present to the court through Turkey. He was named Hannibal after he was purchased, was freed and ennobled in his 20s, fought Swedes and became Russian governor of Estonia and of Livonia. About 50 to 80 years, in Austria and Prussia keeping blacks in the entourage was deemed exotic and fun.

An interesting article (the numbers are quite staggering). Thank you.

[sublime]

Contrary to the article I believe that the Arab slave trade does predate Islam. I am not sure of the extent of it predating Islam, although I do not deny that Islam was used as a tool to fuel the Arab slave trade. Islam, however, frowns upon slavery and is in itself a non-racialist ideology, although religion is often used by people as a political tool to advance their own desires.

Anyway according to the reviews of the book Slavery in the Arab World the Arab slave trade began in ernest in the 6th century. The advent of Islam was also sometime in the 6th century.

[eufrenio]

This article does not mention that fellow Blacks sold their own people into slavery, sometimes their own children, and continue to do so to this day.

[berschneider]

eufrenio said:

This article does not mention that fellow Blacks sold their own people into slavery, sometimes their own children, and continue to do so to this day.

I know a couple of people who would love to sell their children into slavery; the kids are that bad!

[berschneider]

Their article about colonisation (or colonization)

www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/colonization.html

is quite horrible too.

I always suspected that colonialism was good for Africa and that its abrupt end is nothing to be happy about (at least nothing as bad as Rwanda genocide ever happened). This article and pictures are quite horrific (thanks for the link). I guess it must have varied from colony to colony, and from country to country, and was not nearly as bad everywhere - not as depicted in this article at least.

[Afro]

Anytime a whole group of peoples (And in this case a GIGANTIC group) right to self determination is taken away thats a bad thing. I'm sure some parts benefitted from the colonizers, but for the most part Africa probably would have been better off without Arab and European intervention.

All the Europeans did was steal national resources to help THERE countries become better.

I don't see anything good at all about that.

[Afro]

(at least nothing as bad as Rwanda genocide ever happened).

The Rwanda genocide was probably a direct result of colonization.

Europeans cut up the land and divided the people, causing rivals at the same time.

Sure if the Europeans were still there of course they would have been able to stop it, but they are the ones that directly put the hate in the people.

[eufrenio]

Afro said:

Anytime a whole group of peoples (And in this case a GIGANTIC group) right to self determination is taken away thats a bad thing. I'm sure some parts benefitted from the colonizers, but for the most part Africa probably would have been better off without Arab and European intervention.

All the Europeans did was steal national resources to help THERE countries become better.

I don't see anything good at all about that.

Africa would be a even more backward place without the Arabs and Europeans, something like Papua-new Guinea 50 years ago..
Surely, we Europeans were colonizers not a NGO.

My own country was colonized by the Romans many centuries ago and we are still grateful to them.
Do you seriously think that Africa is better off now than before independence?

[eufrenio]

Afro said:

(at least nothing as bad as Rwanda genocide ever happened).

The Rwanda genocide was probably a direct result of colonization.

Europeans cut up the land and divided the people, causing rivals at the same time.

Sure if the Europeans were still there of course they would have been able to stop it, but they are the ones that directly put the hate in the people.

These people hated each other before the Europeans even appeared there. The Tutsis bossed and exploited the Hutus for centuries, before and after independence.
I´ll grant one thing, that the Belgians were poor colonists and mere amateurs compared to the French, Portuguese or British, who all did a great job.

[Afro]

Do you seriously think that Africa is better off now than before independence?

I never said that.

I'm simply stating that ALOT (Not all or even most) of problems in Africa can go back to colonization and how Europe treated the continent afterwords. Especially Rwanda.

Colonize it for a hundred years, then just bail the **** out. That would be like America just pulling out of Iraq right now.

Anyways, when did Arabs ever help SSAfrica out???

[nobody you know]

yeah, the arab slave trade does predate islam.

they were putting people into slavery before the west was, and do so up to this day.

Often the black parents are told that their children will get a better life in the new country and will not be "slaves" - they are told that if they do this they will get more money. Being very poor and not having had much contact with the outside world, they often do this because they acutally believe what these people are saying.

If you were poor, starving and very politically unaware, and some merchant guy came up to you and said that they could offer your child a better life than what they had, you would want the best for your child and that may well involve handin the child over. you would want them to have a chance of a good future. And tragically, their country doesn't offer them that chance, and charlatans such as these guys exploit them.

[Afro]

These people hated each other before the Europeans even appeared there. The Tutsis bossed and exploited the Hutus for centuries, before and after independence.

Well maybe you just know more about it then me. I get all of my info from books and the internet, and most say that the Europeans caused the rivalry between the two.

I´ll grant one thing, that the Belgians were poor colonists and mere amateurs compared to the French, Portuguese or British, who all did a great job.

I still don't see anything good about using your might to exploit a group of people only to benefitt yourselves. Sure they set up shop and taught them things, but for the most part Africa got shafted by the deal.

Maybe America should just invade Africa for its natural resources! They would surely mine them for free, seeing as how we give SOOO MUCH back to them by running there governments and teaching these savages how to make fire.

[eufrenio]

nobody said:

yeah, the arab slave trade does predate islam.

they were putting people into slavery before the west was, and do so up to this day.

Often the black parents are told that their children will get a better life in the new country and will not be "slaves" - they are told that if they do this they will get more money. Being very poor and not having had much contact with the outside world, they often do this because they acutally believe what these people are saying.

If you were poor, starving and very politically unaware, and some merchant guy came up to you and said that they could offer your child a better life than what they had, you would want the best for your child and that may well involve handin the child over. you would want them to have a chance of a good future. And tragically, their country doesn't offer them that chance, and charlatans such as these guys exploit them.

The point is that the parents know all too well what slavery is and get paid for the deal. Being poor is no excuse. Did your ancestors ever sell their children because they were starving? I think not.
Slavery is an ingrained African custom. Benin and other African "states" flourished on the trade.