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Post by Vimara on Feb 24, 2004 1:02:20 GMT -5
Go ahead people ask~! and to my the people that share the same blood as me help to answer some questions!!!! so the invite is open!!!! oh btw you heard of the "italian stallion" well how about the "lusitano stallion" hehehe Cavalo Lusitano - Filho do Vento-Lusitano Horse - Son of the Wind   |
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Post by Necronomicom on Feb 24, 2004 2:01:34 GMT -5
eu poderia pesquisar na internet, mas ja que voce esta aqui pra responder perguntas eu vou perguntar sem pesquisar  O que aconteceu depois que Dom Joao VI morreu? Ele foi envenenado pela mulher Espanhola e pelo filho Miguel não foi? E o que aconteceu com Dom Pedro quando voltou para Portugual, ele tentou se tornar rei? Ele morreu em uma guerra civil contra o irmao Dom Miguel, certo? Em nunca estudei sobre esses fatos aqui no Brasil.. |
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Post by Necronomicom on Feb 24, 2004 2:13:41 GMT -5
outra pergunta, sobre a lingua Portuguesa, quando e porque a lingua Portuguesa sofreu mudanças gramaticais dramasticas? eu ja li textos velhos onde varias palavras são escritas diferentes, palavras com dois L's, ph, y, entre outras.
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Post by herrx on Feb 24, 2004 2:46:07 GMT -5
Olá!<br>Uma curiosidade que eu tenho, é sobre a influência na lingua portuguesa de origem não latina e não arábica.
Você tem alguns exemplos?
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Post by alex221166 on Feb 24, 2004 9:03:00 GMT -5
I hope this will clear all your doubts
To Necronomicon:
"O que aconteceu depois que Dom Joao VI morreu? Ele foi envenenado pela mulher Espanhola e pelo filho Miguel não foi? E o que aconteceu com Dom Pedro quando voltou para Portugual, ele tentou se tornar rei? Ele morreu em uma guerra civil contra o irmao Dom Miguel, certo?"
As you know, Dom Pedro IV de Portugal (Pedro I do Brasil) was simultaneously the heir to the throne of Portugal while being the Emperor of Brazil. His oldest daughter (Dona Maria da Glória) was the rightful heiress to the Portuguese throne, and she represented the reformist (liberal) wing of the country, while her uncle Dom Miguel (who was to marry her) represented the absolutists. When D. João VI died (I don't know if he was poisoned or not), D Miguel became the regent until D Maria didn't reach the required age to assume the throne and marry her uncle. The problem was that D Miguel assumed control of the country as the rightful monarch (he was one of the most popular kings in Portuguese history). D Pedro IV came from Brazil and with the help of the English, he invaded the Azores, and then he invaded Oporto. Oporto was attacked by the absolutists, but thanks to the brave defense led by Sá da Bandeira (who lost his arm in a skirmish), the city held and D Pedro was able to invade the Algarve, and from that region, the Alentejo.
D. Pedro never tried to become king of Portugal, Brazil was much richer and it was independant from the English interference (unlike Portugal). Brazil was the lung that kept Portugal alive. When it became independant, Portugal was ruined for the rest of the XIX century thanks to the French invasions, and thansk to the civil war that soon followed. D, Pedro returned to Brazil after protecting the legitimacy of his daughter Dona Maria.
"outra pergunta, sobre a lingua Portuguesa, quando e porque a lingua Portuguesa sofreu mudanças gramaticais dramasticas? eu ja li textos velhos onde varias palavras são escritas diferentes, palavras com dois L's, ph, y, entre outras."
Languages evolve. Nevertheless, the Portuguese spoken in Portugal is almost the same as the Portuguese spoken 500 years ago by Camões. Brazilian-Portuguese has been far more influenced by foreign languages than European-Portuguese for obvious reasons (the Amerindian influences, the African influences, and the admiration that Brazilians seem to have for everythign Anglo-Saxon - a legacy of the treacherous burgeoisie, and a legacy of the English influence in both countries).
Uirapurú<br>
"Olá!<br>Uma curiosidade que eu tenho, é sobre a influência na lingua portuguesa de origem não latina e não arábica.
Você tem alguns exemplos? "
Yes. There were some recent gallicisms, anglicisms, italicisms, but they were not that significant (stress, pizza, champagne, etc). We still use old Lusitanian words (perro [dog], ardósia [board]). The most important foreign influence was the arab (a few thousands of words), as modern Portuguese descends clearly from the Latin language.
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Post by Tautalos on Feb 25, 2004 6:43:20 GMT -5
Segundo li num site espanhol cujo endereço já nem sei qual é, há mais palavras ibéricas que são de origem pré-romana.
Uma delas será o palavrão «caralho», e outros termos linguisticamente afins, tais como «carago», talvez mesmo «caraças», e seus equivalentes castelhanos e catalães: podem derivar duma raiz arcaica *car-, eventualmente céltica, significando «rocha» (Irlandês «carric»), pelo que as interjeições começadas em «car-» podem dizer respeito a uma antiga ligação entre a rocha e o falo (lembrar as procissões populares a certas rochas ou em torno delas) e ao seu poder de protecção.
Há entretanto vários topónimos que são de origem pré-romana, tais como:
Évora - do Celta Eburo, Teixo;
Bragança - equivalente à austríaca Bregenz;
Braga - do povo dos Bracari, localizados na zona galaica;
Lagos - virá de Lacóbriga;
Conímbriga;
Setúbal - virá de Cetóbriga, ou Caetobriga;
Longroiva (aldeia) - virá provavelmente de Longobriga;
Tâmega (rio transmontano) - eventualmente equivalente ao inglês Thames;
Carenque - localidade onde existe um monumento megalítico, o que a faz parecida com Stonehenge: se Car- significa «Rocha», como se disse acima, então Carenque será o exacto equivalente de Stonehenge;
há muitos outros termos. Infelizmente, ainda não se fez um estudo aprofundado do tema, tanto quanto sei. Mas há um livro muito interessante, de dois irmãos de apelido Amaral, cujo título aqui colocarei assim que o tiver à mão.
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Post by Vimara on Feb 25, 2004 9:43:47 GMT -5
Tautalos try to type in english so that others of this forum who vist this thread can also enjoy it. here is some info on portuguese language its from "wikipedia" its a good starting point on "research" and shouldnt be the said all be all. The Rise of the Portuguese language King Alfonso I established the Portuguese Nation that assumed official independence in 1143. The language spoken in this occidental part of the Peninsula was Gallego-Portuguese which in the time differentiated itself: in the south, Portuguese, and in the north, Galician, which was undergoing more influence of Castilian. In 1290, king Diniz creates the Escola de Direitos Gerais (School of General Rights) and compels in decree the official use of the Portuguese Language. Moorish invasion From 711, with the moorish invasion of the Peninsula, Arabic is adopted as main language in the conquered regions, but the population continues to speak Romance. From the 9th to the 11th century, some Portuguese terms appear in the texts written in Latin, but Portuguese is essentially only spoken in Portugal and Galicia. Although barbarians and Arabs remained in the peninsula for quite some time, the influence that they exerted on the language was small and was restricted to the lexicon, therefore the romanization process was very intense. But one can find a huge number of Arabic words in Portuguese especially relating to food, agriculture and placenames of the south. Pre-Roman origin words * Abóbora (pumpkin) - native * Barro (adobe) - native * Bezerro (year-old calf) - native * Bico (peak) from Celtic * Cabana (hut) from Celtic * Cama (bed) - native * Camisa (shirt) from Celtic * Carvalho(oak) from Celtic * Cerveja (beer) from Celtic * Farol (lighthouse) from Greek * Gato (cat) from Celtic * Louça (claw) - native * Malha (mesh) from Phoenician * Mapa (map) from Phoenician * Manteiga (butter) - native * Saco (bag) from Phoenician * Sapo (frog) - native * Touca (headress) from Celtic Barbarian origin words * Barão (baron) from ger. baro * Ganhar (to win) from ger. waidanjan * Guerra (war) from got. *wirro * Roubar (to steal) from ger. raubon Arabic origin words * Alcova (Alcove) from alkubba * Aldeia (village) from aldaya * Alecrim (rosemary) from aliklil * Alicate (pliers) from allikkát * Alface (lettuce) from alkhass * Alfândega (customs) from alfunduk * Algarismo (algarism, number) from alkarizmi * Alquimia (Alchemy) from al + kimia * Almirante (admiral) from amir + ar-rahl * Almofada (cushion) from almukhadda * Alvará (license) from albar'at * Âmbar (amber) * Argola (ring) * Armazém (warehouse) * Arroz (rice) * Azeite (olive oil) * Cabide (hanger) * Damasco (damson plum) * Garrafa (bottle) * Girafa (giraffe) * Jasmim (jasmin) * Jarra (jar) * Javali (wild boar) * Laranja (orange) * Macio (soft) * Marfim (ivory) * Nora (daughter-in-law) * Recife (reef) * Refém (hostage) * Saga (Saga) * Sapato (shoe) * Tarefa (task) * Tarifa (tariff) * Xadrez (Chess) * Xerife (xerife) Asian origin words * Chá (Tea), from Chinese * Jangada (raft), from Malay Amerindian origin words * Abacaxi (pineapple) * Caju (cashew) * Mandioca (cassava) * Pipoca (popcorn) * Tatu (armadillo) Sub-saharan Africa origin words * Banana (banana) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_language |
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Post by dandan on Feb 26, 2004 21:57:52 GMT -5
Go ahead people ask~! and to my the people that share the same blood as me help to answer some questions!!!! I'm sure if anybody wanted to know anything about this subject they'd ask. Oh, wait... they do, and you tell them to do some research and not be lazy. Does that qualify as irony? |
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Post by Vimara on Feb 27, 2004 11:42:21 GMT -5
ok you got me "dan dan" now move on. ;D
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Post by Herzeleid on Mar 9, 2004 15:15:42 GMT -5
I'd like to know how's the realationship between northern portuguese people and galicians and asturians.
And, I'd like to know how strong are the cultural and ethnical differences between northern and southern portuguese people.
Also, I'd like to how if the language/dialect spoke in Miranda is realted to celtic (gaelic?) languages.
Thanks a lot in advance brother.
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Post by alex221166 on Mar 9, 2004 23:58:39 GMT -5
"I'd like to know how's the relationship between northern portuguese people and galicians and asturians."
The northern Portuguese are the Galicians are ethnically the same. Culturally, they are quite similar, but not exactly the same. They get along rather well, I guess... but the Galicians are still Spaniards, and as such they ocasionally look down on their southern neighbours.
"And, I'd like to know how strong are the cultural and ethnical differences between northern and southern portuguese people."
The ethnical differences are minimal (not to say almost non-existant). You will find more blondism in the north than in the south; you will find more alpines/med types in the center, and darker types (some of them somewhat north African looking) in the south.
"Also, I'd like to how if the language/dialect spoke in Miranda is realted to celtic (gaelic?) languages."
No, the Mirandês is related to the ancient language spoken in neighbouring León (the leonese). In the XI century, the most important kingdom in the Peninsula was that of León.<br>
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Post by Herzeleid on Mar 10, 2004 14:24:40 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply Alex.
I have more questions if you don't mind.
I have read somewhere in the internet (don't really remember where) that the Visigoths were merely a ruling noble class in Portugal, and that they almost didn't mix with native iberians (commoners).
How true is that statement?
I also would like to know about the racial and cultural make-up of the people from Madeira and Azores, because I really don't know much about them.
Did people from all over portugal settle there? Is there any visible ethnic difference between them and continental portuguese people?
And what about their folklore dance and songs, from what part of Portugal did they derivate?
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Post by Springa on Mar 10, 2004 18:07:47 GMT -5
Se não me engano houve mudanças na norma culta do português do Brasil nos anos 20 (ou 30), e depois, nos anos 60, para simplificar e facilitar a ortografia. outra pergunta, sobre a lingua Portuguesa, quando e porque a lingua Portuguesa sofreu mudanças gramaticais dramasticas? eu ja li textos velhos onde varias palavras são escritas diferentes, palavras com dois L's, ph, y, entre outras. |
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Post by Springa on Mar 10, 2004 18:16:22 GMT -5
Not really, but I read somewhere that the last Celtic speakers in Galiza died in the 15th century. Actually, I've been trying to find information about the Celtic language of Galiza for a long time and never found much. Does anyone know anything about it? Also, I'd like to how if the language/dialect spoke in Miranda is realted to celtic (gaelic?) languages. |
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Post by alex221166 on Mar 10, 2004 18:44:01 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply Alex. I have more questions if you don't mind. I have read somewhere in the internet (don't really remember where) that the Visigoths were merely a ruling noble class in Portugal, and that they almost didn't mix with native iberians (commoners). How true is that statement? I also would like to know about the racial and cultural make-up of the people from Madeira and Azores, because I really don't know much about them. Did people from all over portugal settle there? Is there any visible ethnic difference between them and continental portuguese people? And what about their folklore dance and songs, from what part of Portugal did they derivate? As to the Goths: they obviously mixed with the native populations. There were laws against mixed marriages, but king Receswinth's Forum Judicum changed that. The skulls taken from Visigoth graveyards in Portugal also showed that these individuals were neither Nordics, nor native Iberians - they were mixed (having traits common to both sub-races). I recently saw estimates that would make the Visigoth population in the Peninsula at around 10% of the total Iberian population. Previously, I thought their numbers to be about half that number, but the 10% estimate makes more sense, considering the levels of blondism seen in the Peninsula (particularly in the north). You can check the information for yourself in my site www.geocities.com/refuting_kempI address the Visigoths while refuting Kemp, Anon and I also have the study of the Visigoth graveyeard that Kukul-Kan was kind to post in the RMMB. As to the Azoreans: the Azores and Madeira were settled by people from all over the country, but mainly from southern Portugal (namely Algarve). They also have Flemish (Dutch) and French blood. There aren't any important differences between the Azoreans and the rest of the population, but they do have a higher level of eye blondism than in mainland Portugal. As to their folclore, I really can't help you...  |
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