What really constitutes a Negroid?

[Agrippa]

Negrids are core race and they expanded from Western Africa, in the rest of Africa other types dominated before like pre-Aethiopids and Khoisanids. And yes, Negroids could have evolved "Europiform" features on their own too, but only over longer time and chances are higher that they got the necessary genetic traits for that features which were then selected from Europoids.

Furthermore typical Negrids dominate in most parts of Subsaharan Africa and mainly on the borders to Europids they deviate...

The Negrid core has a certain feature combinations, thats not idealised, thats how they are f.e. in most parts of Nigeria (Sudanid, Nordpalaenegrid), Kongo (Palaenegrid with Nilotid, Kafrid, Bambutid admixture) etc.


F.e. the guy in your signature is more Negrid than the Tubus, thats obvious.

[king]

The fulanis of nigeria have E3A at 100%, they are not mixed with anything, why do people try to make the fulanis or the Tubus mixed I just don't get it.

[Planet Asia]

agrippa said:

Negrids are core race and they expanded from Western Africa, in the rest of Africa other types dominated before like pre-Aethiopids and Khoisanids. And yes, Negroids could have evolved "Europiform" features on their own too, but only over longer time and chances are higher that they got the necessary genetic traits for that features which were then selected from Europoids.

More senseless speculation and unproven theories with a pseudoscientific twist to make it look professional. I'm not wasting my time any further debating this nonsense. The fossil record in the early Saharan shows people with narrow heads, narrow noses and oval faces who are ancestral to today's Fulani and Teda groups.

Nordpaleanegrid, WTH? What meaningless nonexistent terms, I can tell you have never taken a class in bio-anthropology.

[king]

Planet Asia is the only one who makes any sense on this Forum.

[magneto]

agrippa said:

They look like Nilotids with slight Aethiopoid influence...could be Tutsis going after the facial features and are in the wider Negroid range without being typical, fully Negrids.

Nilotids??I don't think they look like that unless you mean like the Nilo-Saharans you find in Eritrea..



^^this is pseudo Fulani IMO.I don'tsee what's so non-negroid about the Tubu man and woman you posted.The Tubu man looks like many Fulani men from Nigeria(not the type from Niger).

[wadad]

Pseudo Aethiopid Fulani and the Sahelians in general are a rarity and far between.

[magneto]

Well,if you mean ones that look exactly like Horners I would agree because alot have their own type of look but if you mean types that don't fit the "true negroid" stereotype then there is a whole lot of them.

F.e.

agrippa said:

bertrand said:

No such thing as a "West Ethiopoid", that useless anthropological jargon from Skadi, I even remember a poster on Skadi with a thread about so-called "Ethiopoids" in West Africa, nonsense!

They are a Europoid influenced Negroid desert-nomad type so the similarities, same-similar specialisation is obvious.

Compare real Negrids with those:
www.africarte.it/foto-storiche/foto_storiche.htm

F.e. this Dogon male:


With this "pure-typical" Sudanid female:


Ful woman:


Haussa:


Compared with typical Sudanids:
www.africarte.it/foto-storiche/Tipi%20sudanesi.JPG


Various maps:
www.africarte.it/mappe-etniche/mappe_etniche.htm

To most on here the Dogon,Fulani and the Hausa must be mixed because they don't fit the stereotype that's show in the 2nd picture.

[Planet Asia]

To most on here the Dogon,Fulani and the Hausa must be mixed because they don't fit the stereotype that's show in the 2nd picture.

Thats the whole fallacy of Agrippa's tales extreme Negroid doesn't mean pure and Elongated doesn't mean mixed. His nonsense about non-idealized, specicialized and progressiveness is nonsense and more nonsense thats why you *NEVER* see him provide any references because there are none that support nonsense.

[king]

It is good to see that not everybody on this forum buys into some of the garbage being put out as truth. Agrippa and others like him are the reason I don't post on this forum that often. Some of these people need a reality check. That is why this forum needs people like Planet Asia and Magneto so the truth about African diversity does not get ignored and written off as some kind of mix. The Fulanis, Hausa and the Dogon are not mixed with anything. Don't forget the fulanis of Nigeria have E3A at 100%. This is the death blow that shuts up most people who say the Fulanis must be mixed.

[Agrippa]

Nordpaleanegrid, WTH? What meaningless nonexistent terms, I can tell you have never taken a class in bio-anthropology.

Read John R. Baker's "Race", I can post the map and what the differences are about when I'm at home. Basically its about them being still closer to the typical Negrid forms and having not the dwarfish, reduced, more primitive and often Bambutid influenced character of many Central Palaenegrids (Kongo region).

Nilotids??I don't think they look like that unless you mean like the Nilo-Saharans you find in Eritrea..

She looks like a desert adapted Sudanid form with Europoid influence. You can assert that this is the result of long term adaptation with zero Europoid admixture, might be true, hard to determine with certainty.
Do you have read studies on the Tubu in particular?

To most on here the Dogon,Fulani and the Hausa must be mixed because they don't fit the stereotype that's show in the 2nd picture.

They obviously deviate from the typical Negrid core and standard Negrids you find from Nigeria to South Africa all along their respective expansion.

If its not admixture, and I assume admixture still as an important possibility, its adaptive deviation which lead to a non-typical, regionally specialised Negroid form.

If former Europids (genetically) would develop many Mongoloid characteristics they couldnt be considered typical Europids neither - since race is about evolutionary tendencies, specialisation and different specialisation means being of different race. That they are Negroid (Tubu, Fulani etc.) is obvious, but no typical Negrid types.

You once question the West African origin of Negrids and that there is something like a "Negrid core type", ok, so you claim all the Negrid forms evolved in Subsaharan Africa in situ without a major expansion from a West, Central-West African area? Think about it twice...

[Planet Asia]

There were no typical core "Negrids" that all other deviated from, there is no proof of it.

[king]

What is a Negrid is this something you only find on dodona stupid names like this meant to divide africans? As for what Planet Asia said about proof, Proof is something it seems that people on dodona don't have much of they only talk garbage. I don't even know why I post on dodona some people are so ignorant to the truth about african diversity that they come up with anything. Why are some people on dodona so ignorant.

[Agrippa]

bertrand said:

There were no typical core "Negrids" that all other deviated from, there is no proof of it.

Point is Negrids expanded from centres, there are core areas in which you find practically no or just slight deviation from the standard and if going further away from this centres you find usually more and more deviations both because of other adaptation and admixture f.e. with Europoids, Aethiopids, Bambutids, Khoisanids.

Before you talk about that on just show your sources because I have at least the typological anthropologica works of the last 60 years as source.

[Planet Asia]

agrippa said:

bertrand said:

There were no typical core "Negrids" that all other deviated from, there is no proof of it.

Point is Negrids expanded from centres, there are core areas in which you find practically no or just slight deviation from the standard and if going further away from this centres you find usually more and more deviations both because of other adaptation and admixture f.e. with Europoids, Aethiopids, Bambutids, Khoisanids.

Before you talk about that on just show your sources because I have at least the typological anthropologica works of the last 60 years as source.

You have the sources that use anthropological terms that are offensive[Kafrid] and not in use by any bioanthropologist. Now getting back on point, there is no evidence that the Fulani and other Saharan black types are "Europoidized" "Negrids", they're simply desert adapted people who descend from the same stock ancestrally that gave rise to *ALL* West Africans.

[Agrippa]

bertrand said:

You have the sources that use anthropological terms that are offensive[Kafrid] and not in use by any bioanthropologist. Now getting back on point, there is no evidence that the Fulani and other Saharan black types are "Europoidized" "Negrids", they're simply desert adapted people who descend from the same stock ancestrally that gave rise to *ALL* West Africans.

Now thats more or less true for Ainuids too still they can't be considered as real Mongolids.

About the terms, well, there was a longer discussion about that issue already in which I tried to explain it and that the name Kafrids came from a tribal group and was not intended to be offensive and you are free to use alternative names though its ridiculous since it comes from the tribal groups of South East Africa, however, use Bantuid if you prefer it, what matters is the feature combination.

But back to the topic, well, I dont assume that the Saharan groups developed out of the Negrid core but if split off much earlier so even if they dont have Europoid admixture they deviate but that doesnt make them non-Negrid, just a deviation inside the Negroid spectrum and different specialisation to some degree.

That leads to the question how old the Negrid race in the narrower sense is at all since though there are some primitive features, they possess rather new and typical features, not just on the soft parts, which make them clearly distinct and there are no very old findings of such typical Negrids.