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Post by One Humanity on Dec 29, 2005 7:07:33 GMT -5
Height-length index according to Lundman: PS: Maybe I should have said Lautrec, here is the painting I had in mind: Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec - A Corner of the Moulin de la Galette
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Post by Liquid Len on Dec 29, 2005 7:34:28 GMT -5
Speaking of close ancestors and other relatives, that's how I classify mine: maternal grandparents: both tall Alpinoids mother: metrically Eastern Med (too longheaded for a Dinaricized Med); probably a Greek influence from Sicily paternal grandfather: Phalian-Nordic, but of a convex nosed Gauschlag and with dark hair and some slight Alpine hints paternal grandmother: hard to tell, possibly Dinaric-Nordic, but small and stocky father: skinny Alpine, convex nosed and perhaps with Nordic influenced features brother: makes quite an Eastern Nordic impression on me, though he's only slightly taller than myself uncle and aunt (paternal side): Dinaric, but small and skinny uncle: I always wondered how it's possible that my uncle is such an extreme Dinarid. Of course, needless to say that Dinarid characters are very widespread in Europe, but the really extreme specimens aren't found too often in most areas, except the Dinaric core regions, i.e. afaik from Austria to Albania and in the Carpathians. It's thinkable that it comes from our French Huguenot side; my g-grandmother from that direction was very Dinaric nosed; but on the other hand her head didn't look similar to my uncle's. And the Eastern French Dinarids have a certain distinct look (it's a kind of Gauschlag too) that's different from his look. It's also possible (and perhaps even more likely, considering my classifications above, and considering that my uncle's half East Prussian cousin looks about equally extreme) that it comes from my East Prussian paternal grandmother. But she doesn't look that extreme neither, and East Prussia was quite far away from the Dinaric core area. Anthropologists usually ascribed the few East Prussian Dinarids to Protestant refugees from Salzburg, but my grandmother is from the Catholic area. Now it could be argued that this area attracted, after the Reformation, mostly settlers from the Catholic, often Dinaric German South. But afaik most of the German immigration was earlier than that. And the Dinaric characters from the South German colonists would have been more or less "lost" in the mass of the more Northern colonists. Now, recently I've seen a pic of an East Prussian gg-grandfather of mine; his face reminds me of this Dinaric Hungarian (whose head's a little too long btw), and also of my uncle's. This seems to confirm that I'm on the right trace, but alas, his surname was very un-Dinaric (Böttcher); OK, his look might still be from his mother's side. So maybe that's a sign for some recent admixture from a Dinaric area, but on the other hand the population size was shrinking in the time before his birth, i.e. there wasn't much immigration back then, which makes my theory less likely again.
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Post by One Humanity on Dec 29, 2005 9:30:57 GMT -5
Maybe it's partly the mustache but your uncle looks like the father of an East-German I knew, also of smaller stature, the son being ash blond. There should be Dinarid admixture in Eastern Germany as in Poland definitely is. My grandfather's brother reminds me of the Italian-American Abe Vigoda (who also resembles the German television star Alfred Biolek who is Sudeten-German), minus Eastbaltid and Nordid admixture. Height: 6' 4" (1.93 m) Nordid according to Herman Lundborg: I already mentioned my grandfather was from Bohemia. One of Lundman's racial pictures of Dalarna: "Mountain miner type from a village": img371.imageshack.us/img371/8757/typiskbergsman8dd.jpgCoon in his chapter about the Czech Republic: Lundman wrote that relatively big or convex noses are inherited dominantly.
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Post by Drooperdoo on Dec 29, 2005 10:12:34 GMT -5
Gareth, Why do you have a photo of a Nordic under Abe Vigoda's pic? Do you really think he's a Nordic???
He's got a long skull--but in the Mediterranean fashion, not the Nordic.
I don't think anyone on Earth would ever confuse Mr. Vigoda for a Swede, though he'd fit into just about any Mediterranean country [hence his being realistically cast as Italians, Jews, etc.] To my knowledge, no one has ever cast the olive-skinned actor as a Viking.
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Post by One Humanity on Dec 29, 2005 10:31:28 GMT -5
I didn't think Vigoda is Nordid.
I mentioned Nordid admixture about my grandfather's brother and there's a resemblance to the Swede. His other siblings looked nothing like the Swede but more Alpinoid.
You may also question whether the Swede is such a perfect example or rather Mediterranoid by chance. It's up to you.
The Czech Republic and Hungary are among the most cross-bred countries of Europe according to Lundman.
If you mix it with coarser types, there can be not much left of a Nordid look obviously, generation-wise. Mediterranids are progressive as well.
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Post by Drooperdoo on Dec 29, 2005 12:14:51 GMT -5
I wasn't questioning Lundman's photo. I was questioning Vigoda's resemblance to the man in the photo.
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Post by One Humanity on Dec 29, 2005 12:59:44 GMT -5
It's Lundborg's photo, not Lundman's!
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Post by Liquid Len on Dec 29, 2005 13:04:24 GMT -5
@ Gareth Your grandmother reminds me of a g-grandmother of mine who was Swabian, too. But if my memory doesn’t deceive me, you don’t have much similarity to her. I think most of my own Alpine component stems from a maternal Alpo-Dinaric g-grandfather of mine: I don't believe I'd be much better looking without him; I don't have anything of his features anyway. There should be Dinarid admixture in Eastern Germany as in Poland definitely is. Here and there, but afaik relatively seldom, and mostly mixed. Perhaps there are/were some regional concentrations I don’t know of. ...on the other hand the population size was shrinking in the time before his birth, i.e. there wasn't much immigration back then, which makes my theory less likely again. I've just noticed: This doesn't apply to Danzig, which was very close and partially Catholic too. And his wife's maiden name (Kewitsch) occured there as well. Perhaps a trace of the solution...?
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Post by Educate Me on Dec 29, 2005 21:39:40 GMT -5
Gareth, you remind me of the Spider Man guy, Tobey Maguire (spelling?), and of the lead singer of an english band (Kasabian)
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Post by tonynatuzzi on Dec 29, 2005 21:42:50 GMT -5
His nose is alot bigger than Tobey Maguire's.
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Post by Crimson Guard on Dec 30, 2005 5:38:59 GMT -5
I didn't think Vigoda is Nordid. I mentioned Nordid admixture about my grandfather's brother and there's a resemblance to the Swede. His other siblings looked nothing like the Swede but more Alpinoid. You may also question whether the Swede is such a perfect example or rather Mediterranoid by chance. It's up to you. The Czech Republic and Hungary are among the most cross-bred countries of Europe according to Lundman. If you mix it with coarser types, there can be not much left of a Nordid look obviously, generation-wise. Mediterranids are progressive as well. Honestly Gareth..I think the Swede is more Mediterranean,but is fair.
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