|
Post by Agrippa on Sept 18, 2005 15:02:14 GMT -5
I wrote about the reasons for nasal shape variation at full length both here and on Stirpes, so I know that selection could lead to a Europid feature combination coming out of a Negrid base, its just a question of time and selective pressure, but that didnt happen in the region in question, f.e. Rwanda, it happened if, in the North.
But here again, dry-high-cold regions are better for such a development, but the elongated Negrids are the Nilotids which dont have this morphological features.
Furthermore there are morphological features which are very, very unlikely under high selective pressure in the region, but are more distributed by chance and ancestry probably, and even such features are more Europoid in Aethiopids than in standard Negrids, even those living in areas which would be much more prone to such a selection.
The reason for the Negrid homogenity is the relatively rapid expansion!!! There were older populations in East Africa already and new Europoids arrived later, especially at the horn but elsewhere too. This feature combination with its typical peculariaties can't be explained with short term selective pressures in the environment in which they are distributed.
|
|
|
Post by Power Cosmic on Sept 18, 2005 15:14:17 GMT -5
I wrote about the reasons for nasal shape variation at full length both here and on Stirpes, so I know that selection could lead to a Europid feature combination coming out of a Negrid base, its just a question of time and selective pressure, but that didnt happen in the region in question, f.e. Rwanda, it happened if, in the North. This is false. Those prehistoric East African fossils were found in the regions of Tanzania and Kenya, regions that have a hot-dry climate. There's no reason to think it happened farter north. A hot dry biope produced the elongated body plan, dry cold high isn't the only environment that can bring about such an adaptation. Your speculations are speculations not facts or absolute truths.
|
|
|
Post by Agrippa on Sept 18, 2005 15:21:05 GMT -5
Sure, they were there as nomads for a longer time than Bantu farmers partly, but the crucial question is how the relations are and whereas the Bantu-farmers of Kafrid racial type are real Negrids, the elongated has Aethiopid, therefore Europoid, admixture, even if its on a low level.
Furthermore the local types you mean are rather the substratum I meant and not the fully developed Aethiopids.
|
|
|
Post by Power Cosmic on Sept 18, 2005 15:24:16 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Agrippa on Sept 18, 2005 15:24:50 GMT -5
Notice how he thinks a dry climate can affect the shape of the nose but the prototype nose has to be introduced and then selected. If it's gonna get selected, then it's gonna get selected no matter what. Like you have to introduce it into the population. God, this guy wastes so much of Dodona's hard drive space. Thats not true it depends on the time frame and the specific form and certain associated peculiarities. In East Africa its just most likely that this features was introduced by Europoids. If you would not find any Europoids in East Africa and just a small island of some people on a high Central African plain which have just a narrower, but otherwise Negrid formed nose and just Negrid features, there would be no reason to assume a necessary admixture. But Aethiopids have, as I explained oftentimes, many Europoid influenced features! Its your subbornness to accept the facts which leads to such useless-time-and-space-wasting-postings because I already made my comments and brought them through, before you come in with ad hominem without arguments.
|
|
|
Post by Power Cosmic on Sept 18, 2005 15:26:43 GMT -5
Notice how he thinks a dry climate can affect the shape of the nose but the prototype nose has to be introduced and then selected. If it's gonna get selected, then it's gonna get selected no matter what. Like you have to introduce it into the population. God, this guy wastes so much of Dodona's hard drive space. I guess the cold-dry environment is why Middle Easterners and Papuans have the biggest ones. He's looking at the face and totally lacking the body plan also. The body itself is selected and adapted for a hot dry climate.
|
|
|
Post by Power Cosmic on Sept 18, 2005 15:31:29 GMT -5
Notice how he thinks a dry climate can affect the shape of the nose but the prototype nose has to be introduced and then selected. If it's gonna get selected, then it's gonna get selected no matter what. Like you have to introduce it into the population. God, this guy wastes so much of Dodona's hard drive space. Thats not true it depends on the time frame and the specific form and certain associated peculiarities. In East Africa its just most likely that this features was introduced by Europoids. If you would not find any Europoids in East Africa and just a small island of some people on a high Central African plain which have just a narrower, but otherwise Negrid formed nose and just Negrid features, there would be no reason to assume a necessary admixture. But Aethiopids have, as I explained oftentimes, many Europoid influenced features! Its your subbornness to accept the facts which leads to such useless-time-and-space-wasting-postings because I already made my comments and brought them through, before you come in with ad hominem without arguments. Europid type features were not introduced by an outside population, the earliest fossils with elongated features are 9000 years old. The body plan, and head shape are not Europid influenced, Nilotes are even more narrow headed than Elongated populations. You're acting as if populations remained static and unchanged until some new element changed something. In a continent as big as Africa with numerous biopes its ridiculous to think such a thing.
|
|
|
Post by Power Cosmic on Sept 18, 2005 15:34:14 GMT -5
These ones you posted might have some Arabic admixture. As for reselection, the Wodaabe seems to be a good example, with their tradition of women choosing men for their looks in a festival. Those picture I posted came from Guinea, its very unlikely any of those people are Arab influenced. The Woodabe OTOH preserve their features through sexual selection.
|
|
|
Post by Agrippa on Sept 18, 2005 15:49:55 GMT -5
I agree, but elongation alone = Nilotid, Niloto-Hamits = slight deviation, typical Aethiopids = strong deviation, Somalian variants often = heavily and recently mixed.
|
|
|
Post by Agrippa on Sept 18, 2005 17:37:34 GMT -5
Such a waste of space. God, I swear there are like a million clone copies of this topic on Dodona. And in fact, I hate it. The only think I dislike more is to read false things about something I think of being important. I dont want anybody to read such nonsense and without a reasonable antithesis.
|
|
|
Post by Agrippa on Sept 18, 2005 18:21:44 GMT -5
The original elongated substratum was rather between Australid and Khoisanid in the region in question (Tanzania etc. f.e.) If the type developed locally, he did so in the North of Ethiopian highlands, away from real Negrids and in relative isolation, as close to Europids as to Negrids, therefore again, hardly to be described as typical Negrid. Kagame is hot? Well... However, its about probabilities, the probability that Kagame is a just an elongated Negrid is zero. That he is just the result of a original substratum specialisation is very, very low, his features are in fine details to similar that such a correlation by chance is so unlikely that you say it. I wouldnt say it with the same definiteness for all elongated Tutsi types, NEVER, but in his case its clear enough to be sure. The opposite is just so unlikely...
|
|
|
Post by Agrippa on Sept 18, 2005 19:26:01 GMT -5
Read the thread about that topic, if you dont understand it you are just to primitive for understanding any higher value - sidenote: primitive spiritually, not physically, I dont know what you are anatomically. However, we need communities which are efficient, I working on concepts for figuring out whats the most efficient, most versatile, group oriented and seminal feature combination is, from the feets to the hair, from the intellect to the personality, thats what all is about. Believe, I'm more a man and heterosexual than you are They are mostly just a Negrid subrace - Nilotid. Now we could ask again how this Nilotids came up, however. The substratum is only in hints visible in all of Eastafrica. But whats coming in too is Aethiopid to some degree, though its the exception that its in any form significant or even dominant in contemporary Massai. You can refer to Massai as Negrids, I dont care, they are just not as typical as Sudanids. Core races like Mongolids and Negrids radiated in all direction and further away the features become weaker, because they mixed with various locals and older waves had often not as pronounced features as the newest waves. As for the Mongolid problem I'm saying just what I believe is true, it depends on concrete questions, I dont write long essays here to provoke you, even on the contrary, whether you agree or are quiet, I dont want such endless discussions without good arguments. I'm just easy at work if its about answering something what I think is untrue, I accept everything for which I see really good proofs. Siberia is not my speciality anyway, I just quote anthropologists and have my own opinion according to what I read and saw. Real modern Europids are not present in modern Eastern Siberia and they were most likely never there, I never denied that. The problem is here again the substratum which is neither fully Mongolid nor Europid (like Ainuids) though generally closer to Mongolids in some aspects.
|
|
|
Post by Educate Me on Sept 18, 2005 19:51:13 GMT -5
Oh, jesus.. what, do you hunt deers?
|
|
|
Post by Agrippa on Sept 18, 2005 20:43:50 GMT -5
What do you mean with "wet"? I mean atmospheric humidity. Under such conditions a longer respiratory way is advantageous especially to keep the nose and air moisty and preventing withering and easy infections. Cool to Cold means a longer way of the air is advantageous too, just in extreme cold the danger of frostbites is too high, so at least prominent noses are no longer advantageous (typical Mongolids).
|
|
|
Post by Agrippa on Sept 18, 2005 20:49:32 GMT -5
Oh, jesus.. what, do you hunt deers? ;D Well, dont take everything too serious However, I dont think its that difficult, it all relative and you would have a long search finding something more heterosexual than my person. Being more a man depends with whom you compare one..
|
|