Origin of Turanids

[Agrippa]

you wanna give a name to each gradient, then you can come with 30 names for Uralic people.

Pamirids are in many features in the Taurid specialisation, so they show close affinity in terms of specialisation to Dinarids and Armenids. Even the Mongolid-Europid mixed people of Central Asia look different if they have Pamirid or Iranid background - just look at the images.
Iranids have bigger heads and are dolichocephalic, have longer faces and are taller, that would be enough to make a difference though there are others as well.

We see Pamirids as a typical populations, mainly in Tajiks relatively unmixed, so we should name it correctly and the correct name is Pamirid (or Turanid if its clear that we are speaking about Europids).

You are right about the (genetic) backgroud (original partly brachycephalised Iranids, Cromagnids mainly through Kurgan people, Aryans and partly Altaic admixture), but there is something else which makes them to more than just mixture = specialisation - process of selection to a relatively stabilised and harmonious form. That makes a racial type different from Iranids and of the Taurid morphological group.

[Mike the Jedi]

The label "Taurid" makes no assumptions about genetic affinity, I hope. Did Eickstedt believe that Dinarics, Armenoids, and Pamirians were related? Or did he understand that "Dinaricization" is just a process?

[Agrippa]

xcalator1 said:

The label "Taurid" makes no assumptions about genetic affinity, I hope. Did Eickstedt believe that Dinarics, Armenoids, and Pamirians were related? Or did he understand that "Dinaricization" is just a process?

He partly changed his mind and so far I didnt read everything from him, but what I can say is, that saw everything in an evolutionary way, in terms of specialisation usually - and thats what I do too, because race is about specialisation - evolutionary tendencies. Different people if going through the same filter of selection can form a new racial unity and on the other hand, people formerly related, gone through to different filters cannot be considered of the same racial type.

He made certain mistakes if he finally spoke about genetic relations, but he usually wasnt too sure about certain comparisons anyway - he just had not the knowledge of the genetic background we have now and so he had to look at the archaeological record and physical anthropology only - what had to lead to certain mistakes which weren't really his fault because his methods if its about physical anthropology were excellent.

[Educate Me]

this one is very purdy, cutest thing on earth

[Mike the Jedi]

Actually, I think greatness may have been correct when he said Pamirids are just brachycephalized Irano-Afghans. Not saying he was, only that it's possible.

Armenoids of Central Asia is how I've always thought of Pamirians. But whether or not they were Dinaricized by Cromagnoid/Alpine or Mongoloid mixture or both, I don't know.

[Educate Me]

I am not offended, btw do you think she looks mixed? with east asian?

Really, where I live half of the people is mixed (with amerind), I dont care much for that, probably the only thing that would keep me from hypothetically doing her is that most likely she is a muslim, and I am a catholic, not if she is mixed or not.

My cat´s name was Kublai, so I dont mind having kids with mongoloid blood

[Mike the Jedi]

Were the Kurgans really Cromagnoid?

And if so, wouldn't that make the Aryans Cromagnoid? Certainly sounds more plausible than Nordic!

[MC anunnaki]

I have to tell my hubby that.

[ohes]

I think that is similar to old Nutzi tales of Aryans from Tibet. European race mostly evolved in Europe and outside contribution was not very significant, at least for the last 10000 years IMO. Even Kurgan is a Turkish name, most of those Kurgans belong to the ancestors of Turkish people.

[Agrippa]

xcalator1 said:

Were the Kurgans really Cromagnoid?

And if so, wouldn't that make the Aryans Cromagnoid? Certainly sounds more plausible than Nordic!

IE is a linguistic and ethnocultural category - whats really important who spread the languages at the crucial times and that were in the West the Corded ware and battle axe people (Corded Nordid is the most progressive form which lived so far) and in the East the Kurgans which were Palaeeuropid/Cromagnid mostly, but they mixed later, especially during the expansion in the Turan area (with Iranids mostly).

In Europe you can just assume a Eastmediterranid/aka Pontid influence in IE, no real Iranids, the relation of Eastnordids and Iranids dates further back and the Western/Skanonordids dont have a real relation at all.

[henerte]

If most of the original IEs were Pontid/Corded[/i], then this man would be the best representation of them.

The progressivest[/i] of the progressive, the man that brought the world IE languages[/i], the man that can be proudly called Aryan[/i], the man that is from Poland[/i]....

[Agrippa]

henerte said:

If most of the original IEs were Pontid/Corded

[/i], then this man would be the best representation of them.[/quote]

Cromagnids were involved too, from the beginning, later other mixed in either Skandonordid in the West and Iranids-Nordindids in the South as secondary spreaders and they "converted" the rest of the today speakers...

The progressivest

[/i] of the progressive, the man that brought the world IE languages[/i], the man that can be proudly called Aryan[/i], the man that is from Poland[/i]....[/quote]

Hehe..well, he did nothing, at best his ancestors did, he might be a good football player though and yes, he is racially progressive. ;D

[Mike the Jedi]

What about areas like Greece, Italy, Anatolia, etc. where Corded & Danubian types barely exist/existed? How did IE spread there? I'm willing to accept the idea of Proto-Nords spreading IE to areas of northern and western Europe, but to areas in and around the Mediterranean sounds iffy and reeks of Nordicism.

[Educate Me]

Mike, precisely, I dont think that type is common in greece, armenia or iran.

[Agrippa]

xcalator1 said:

What about areas like Greece, Italy, Anatolia, etc. where Corded types barely exist/existed? How did IE spread there?

And the time of the major spread the main types were Cordeds, Eastern Cromagnids and Pontids.
When the Corded people expanded, they assimilated other types to their culture and especially in Italy you can see Nordid-Cromagnid groups coming, in Greece mostly Pontid-Nordid-Cromagnid-Dinarid, even some Alpinids, already when the IE came, same for Anatolia.

The Cordeds spread in Central Europe and Northern Europe the IE culture and language, from this time on, Nordid was a strong element, but we cannot speak of IE = this or that racial type any more, not even in a region. Before that Corded expansion Western IE were Corded, Eastern Cromagnid, both with Pontid influence.
Its even possible that Pontids are the result of specialisation in the Bandkeramiker area and were the primary IE, but the real spreader were - like I said. So in the region North of Greece I assume a very early Indoeuropaeisation and - consequently mixture with other groups, though they Corded/Nordid - Pontid - Cromagnid exchange should have been strong.

It would be easier to explain with maps...but its too late to do some now and I coudnt attach them anyway. We dont have a single group in all times spreading IE language and culture, but various groups in different times, with the most important being in the Central-Northern-Western part Nordid (wider sense) later, at the beginning just Corded, in the East Cromagnid, later Corded and Pontid too.