trajan
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by trajan on Jun 18, 2004 0:26:01 GMT -5
Guenther wrote that 5% of the Germans belong to the phalian race. At the same time you can find a map by Günther in www.nordish.com where the phalian race covers the whole northern plain of Germany and Westphalia which contradicts his low estimation of the phalian race in Germany. From my personal experience the percentage of Germans belonging to the phalian race or showing phalian admixture is way higher. What do you think ?
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Post by One Humanity on Jun 18, 2004 15:40:56 GMT -5
www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/bilder/misc-racgerm.gifwww.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/bilder/misc-comgerm.gifI wondered about that too. Did he perhaps different statements in his earlier books than later (there is no date given)? But what could be the reasen for such dissimilarity Coon didn't have a "Faelid" type, Günther ignored differences between Faelids and Borrebies, as well as others, that are less obvious. So some maps may be explained by this fact. Not of course the thing you described, that seems to be an error. A question of definition. If you see them as Borreby-Nordic blends you'll probably find a good deal of them in the Northern half of Germany. A breed like this so far is 0,X% if not fantasy: The southwest where I live is subracial very intermingled, with Alpine, Keltic/Nordic, Med, Noric/Dinaric and various more phenotypes present all at once. In a group of 30 people, let's say 2-4 of them have considerable Faelid traits. But these persons always show at least one another subrace too in such cases, you often can't call them Faelid in an exclusively way. BTW. a map of a slavic researcher: It's a kind of answer to slav-bashing. ;D Northern Europe's Nords are called -Littoral Nordics-, using a term (Littoral) that was coined by Deniker and Lundman for an ancient trader-people, supposed to be a mix of dolichocephalic Armenoids/Meds/Dinarics (true to some regions in dispersed manner, but why no difference between them and Hallstatts, Borrebies etc?) . Alpines are declared identical to Lapps too (I doubt there is a proof for that), while people from the deepest eastern back land of Europe are labeled in the same way as Spaniards. What says the map about Italy btw. I fail to interpret the disordered hatching.
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Post by Melnorme on Jun 18, 2004 15:55:29 GMT -5
Hmmm...I see Portugal is 'Euro-African'.
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Post by One Humanity on Jun 18, 2004 18:18:53 GMT -5
Hmmm...I see Portugal is 'Euro-African'. Yes, that's the concession in exchange of 'Euro-Asiatic' hordes in Russia (so the author seems to be a Pole or Czech). The map is good to counteract the Nordicist's, as far it can be called that. But for sure, a map will always be inaccurate for explaining more than tendencies. It's funny we haven't seen a 100% non-biased for phenotypes yet.
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Post by It-Alien on Jun 18, 2004 21:29:01 GMT -5
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Post by One Humanity on Jun 18, 2004 21:56:40 GMT -5
Possible. Norda at Skadi may know it, she posted the map.
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trajan
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by trajan on Jun 19, 2004 0:45:28 GMT -5
www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/bilder/misc-racgerm.gifwww.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/bilder/misc-comgerm.gifI wondered about that too. Did he perhaps different statements in his earlier books than later (there is no date given)? But what could be the reasen for such dissimilarity Coon didn't have a "Faelid" type, Günther ignored differences between Faelids and Borrebies, as well as others, that are less obvious. So some maps may be explained by this fact. Not of course the thing you described, that seems to be an error. A question of definition. If you see them as Borreby-Nordic blends you'll probably find a good deal of them in the Northern half of Germany. A breed like this so far is 0,X% if not fantasy: The southwest where I live is subracial very intermingled, with Alpine, Keltic/Nordic, Med, Noric/Dinaric and various more phenotypes present all at once. In a group of 30 people, let's say 2-4 of them have considerable Faelid traits. But these persons always show at least one another subrace too in such cases, you often can't call them Faelid in an exclusively way. BTW. a map of a slavic researcher: It's a kind of answer to slav-bashing. ;D Northern Europe's Nords are called -Littoral Nordics-, using a term (Littoral) that was coined by Deniker and Lundman for an ancient trader-people, supposed to be a mix of dolichocephalic Armenoids/Meds/Dinarics (true to some regions in dispersed manner, but why no difference between them and Hallstatts, Borrebies etc?) . Alpines are declared identical to Lapps too (I doubt there is a proof for that), while people from the deepest eastern back land of Europe are labeled in the same way as Spaniards. What says the map about Italy btw. I fail to interpret the disordered hatching. Bist du Württemberger oder Badener, german1984 ? Ich komme aus Süd-Württemberg und habe eine schwäbische Mutter, bin allerdings Halb-Italiener. I have to mention that I am not able to tell the difference between a Borreby and a Phalian. IMO they look quite similar. In Skadi Kirsten Dunst was classified as a Borreby whereas I would have classified her as a Phalian. I think if someone says an individual looks german, than he implicitly means he has an phalian look. Thus, the phalian race is the element that makes a german looks german and must be much higher than stated by Günther. You are absolutely right with your notion that the Southwest of Germany is totally mixed and that the phalian race here is an absolute minority. However, my mother f.e. , who is a pure swabian, has strong phalian admixture which is responsible that she never is taken for a swabian. Btw the strong admixture of dinaric, med and alpine blood in combination with the nordic race makes the girls in the SW the most beautiful girls in Germany
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Post by Vitor on Jun 19, 2004 3:05:26 GMT -5
I am 100% African from Portugal... ;D
Interesting only the north portuguese are not africans..
this is a Complete CRAP!
I can't tell the difference between a northern portuguese and a southern portuguese. at least in the phenotype. IS this guy capable based on phenotype to distinguish between north and south portuguese?
Crap...
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Post by Graeme on Jun 19, 2004 9:16:49 GMT -5
It is only one man's view of European sub races. If a Portuguese man did one it would probably have the mongolian or Euro-Asiatic section start from Finland and Belarus.
Who is that drawing supposed to represent? Never met anyone like him. I thought Faelids where broad faced and round headed with light complexions. Frankly Nordics in Germany are few and far between including Faelids.
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Post by One Humanity on Jun 19, 2004 11:23:46 GMT -5
Bist du Württemberger oder Badener, german1984 ? Ich komme aus Süd-Württemberg und habe eine schwäbische Mutter, bin allerdings Halb-Italiener. Wohne in der Nähe von Stuttgart, ja. War aber nicht immer so... Als meine Mutter bei einem ihrer Läufe durch den Wald von einer Zecke gebissen wurde, hat das den Virus für eine Hirnhautentzündung übertragen und sie lag ein halbes bis dreiviertel Jahr lang in diversen Krankenhäusern/Kursstätten. Über die Zeit (9 Jahre alt) war ich wieder bei meinem Vater untergebracht, der wohnt bei Paderborn (während genau zu dem Zeitpunkt mein Halbbruder geboren wurde). Interessante Erfahrung, dort zur Schule zu gehen, andere Freunde zu haben, den Bruder aufwachsen zu sehen ... ich glaube ein Kind verkraftet sowas leichter als ein Erwachsener, es ist noch gar nicht so empfindlich was das ganze drumrum, das Umfeld angeht. Und meine Mutter wurde zum Glück wieder vollständig gesund. She left a similar impression like Ladygoeth on me. They both have heavy faces. Possible. Well, I have only a grandmother that is partly Faelid and my father didn't get much of it compared to his brother e.g.. My grandfather is a very Anglo-Saxon looking guy (in a continental way): www.skadi.net/forum/showpost.php?p=130252&postcount=5Of course, Nordrhein Westfalen is not exactly the region where Germanics of the Anglo Saxon tribe settled, at least it was part of the dukedom of Saxony in the Middle Ages. Sounds like my indigenous grandmother, yeah Btw. here's what a Skadialist wrote about the map-thing:
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Post by Vitor on Jun 19, 2004 13:28:49 GMT -5
If we believe in this: Then there are others european countries more african than portugal... I think it's a lot more credible hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/AJHG_2004_v74_p1023-1034.pdfthanks Melnorme... Here you can see that migrations, were carried by sucessions of generations. Starting from a central point (mutation origin)and dispersing radially (there is no arrows in people migrations, if you know what I mean...), intermixing with other people on the voyage, so decreasing genes frequency... Most important, if you call Iberians an african/european mix then you should start putting the same label to most southern coutries...and some central/eastern coutries... It's also obvious that there aren't pure races in earth!
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Post by Melnorme on Jun 19, 2004 13:47:23 GMT -5
It's also obvious that there aren't pure races in earth! E-M78 can't really be considered 'Negroid', though. It's simply far too common outside of Sub-Saharan Africa, despite its origins there. Depending on one's interpretation, this can be either Afrocentric ( massive East African admixture in Greece! ), or Eurocentric ( Caucasoids in East Africa 15,000 years ago! ). Neither interpretation is correct, probably.
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Post by Vitor on Jun 19, 2004 13:48:25 GMT -5
these are ancient migrations (no slave trades bullshit...) look at north spain closer to the basque country! It's obvious that there were migrations from central europe into Iberia (more recent, than the african stuff), because there is a decrease of some of those genes in a concave way, not in a convex. So, If Iberians, greeks and romans did what they did, they already were carrying those genes... This is ancient stuff!
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Post by Graeme on Jun 20, 2004 9:54:21 GMT -5
E-M35, E-M78 and E-M81 appear to be North African, not sub saharran. E-M78 and E-M35 could have been common to the whole of North Africa through to East Africa and Arabia, and was cut into two centres by negroid immigration from West Africa.
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Post by Melnorme on Jun 20, 2004 14:09:55 GMT -5
E-M35, E-M78 and E-M81 appear to be North African, not sub saharran. E-M78 and E-M35 could have been common to the whole of North Africa through to East Africa and Arabia, and was cut into two centres by negroid immigration from West Africa. Actually, E-M35 and E-M78 are more common amongst the Negroid Oromo Ethiopians than they are amongst the Caucasoid-admixed Amharas ( who have 33% of Middle Eastern J ).
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