Batesy
Junior Member
Posts: 54
|
Post by Batesy on Jun 11, 2004 12:30:33 GMT -5
Where did they come from?
|
|
|
|
Post by Melnorme on Jun 11, 2004 13:55:47 GMT -5
Where did they come from? Er...their ancestors were converted into Islam?  If by Muslims, you mean 'Arabs' or 'Middle Easterners', then, good question. Maybe there were always Nordics in the region, maybe they're descendants of European concubines or soldiers or whatever. Until some geneticist tries to correlate phenotype with genetic markers, there is really no way to be sure. |
|
|
|
Post by Aria88 on Jun 11, 2004 23:11:14 GMT -5
There are descendants of several Indo-European tribes in the Middle East. More recently, the Mamelukes were (Egyptian) slaves from the Caucasus (Circassians, etc.) who were numerous and strong enough that they gained control of Egypt. Furthermore, Janissaries were slave-soldiers from Christian lands (i.e. the Balkans) who also became powerful in their adoptive nation, the Turkish Ottoman empire.
Bosnians are mostly Slavic. Albanians are also IEs. Surely there would be at least some Nordid representation from the above stocks.
|
|
|
|
Post by darksphere on Jun 12, 2004 15:10:57 GMT -5
In Denmark something like 5000 indigenous Danes has converted to Islam these late years. But I guess that's not what you're talking about  From your surprise I'm supposing you mean Nordic muslims in the Midlle-East. |
|
|
|
Post by nordicyouth on Jun 13, 2004 16:18:03 GMT -5
Aren't Circassians supposed to have red hair and blue eyes...perhaps that's just a myth, can anyone confirm this for me? And aren't Circassians native to Anatolia?
|
|
|
|
Post by Melnorme on Jun 13, 2004 16:27:02 GMT -5
Aren't Circassians supposed to have red hair and blue eyes...perhaps that's just a myth, can anyone confirm this for me? And aren't Circassians native to Anatolia? Circassians are from the Northern Caucasus. They were dispersed by the Russian Empire into Anatolia and the Levant. www.circassians.org/ |
|
|
|
Post by acidophilus on Jun 13, 2004 19:04:09 GMT -5
no offense, but I don't understand why someone would choose to convert to Islam? (well, I can see why some men would want to...so they can get away with treating women as something lesser).
|
|
|
|
Post by Graeme on Jun 14, 2004 9:07:10 GMT -5
I have to say that I have met a few blond/blue eyed muslims from the Lebanon and Syria. I don't think nordic is appropriate as a description of those people. Blonds do crop up in the Middle East and North Africa, it is not common, but not rare.
|
|
|
|
Post by chairface on Jul 29, 2004 19:49:21 GMT -5
Some Berbers are blond. Hey, lets look at some pics of nordic Muslims. Anyone got any?
|
|
|
|
Post by rusalka on Jul 30, 2004 19:46:37 GMT -5
Aren't Circassians supposed to have red hair and blue eyes...perhaps that's just a myth, can anyone confirm this for me? And aren't Circassians native to Anatolia? Not specifically blue, but light eyes are very common in Circassians (more correctly, Northwestern Caucasians as this includes the Abkhaz too). I would say the majority are light eyed. Fair hair is also common (not so much with the Abkhazians) but I wouldn't say a majority. Red hair is not an impossibility, my father who has Circassian ancestry has dark auburn hair which was much lighter when he was young and I got my reddish brown hair from him. Amongst my Circassian ancestors almost all of them have green (the majority) and blue eyes. What is most prevalent is fair skin, it's almost like a requisite. Circassian women were favored as slaves because of their very fair skin, as we learn from Ottoman annals. Their native land is Northwestern Caucasus, from the Kuban river to the eastern shores of the Black Sea consisting of the Mount Elbruz, the highest peak in Europe (it is considered to be Europe, mountain-wise). They were exiled due to a treaty between the Tsarist Russia and the Ottoman Empire and a great number of them had to emigrate to the lands which belonged to the Ottomans. Of course when the Ottomans lost their lands those places became different countries in the process. Still the majority of Circassian diaspora live in Turkey and there are groups in Jordan (the Prince's mother is Circassian, I believe), Israel, Syria, Yugoslavia the USA and Canada. |
|
|
|
Post by rusalka on Jul 30, 2004 19:55:34 GMT -5
The Northwestern Caucasians are not a people I would call "Muslims". They drink alcohol and the Caucasus republics are famous for their vodkas and other alcoholic drinks. They also eat pork. They were once Christians, after their close contact with the Pontus Greeks and the Russian Empire as well Georgia but it never really took root. Later, when the Ottomans came around the area they introduced Islam and most groups converted as their Princes converted. It was never a wide practice however and their ancestral pagan traditions were carried well into the 19th century. The ones who emigrated to Muslim countries got assimilated and lost most of the pagan traditions but those who remain keep them. The Abkhazians in Abkhazia now are almost all Christians with pagan leanings. Seasonal festivals and praying to Caucasian deities are common practices. Those Circassians who got assimilated in Turkey had shared their surprise when they returned back from visiting their homelands, calling their kin "heretics". Here's an excerpt from a page: "Abkhazians feel like they're "brothers" with the Chechens, Ossetians and Ingushetians, but they are not Muslim. Only 10 per cent are Muslim.
Ninety per cent of the Abkhazians are Christian, but they don't really go to church or call themselves Christian. It's sort of a holdover from a deal made by their king in the ninth century. (These people don't forget anything.)
They still have national shrines to ancient gods throughout Abkhazia, indicating that most of them profess some combination of political Islam, nominal Christianity, and practical paganism." |
|
|
|
Post by Aria88 on Jul 30, 2004 23:43:46 GMT -5
I recall in T.E. Lawrence's (Lawrence of Arabia) Seven Pillars of Wisdom, that when he was captured by the Turks, he explained away his fairness by claiming to be Circassian.
|
|
|
|
Post by rusalka on Jul 31, 2004 0:30:54 GMT -5
I recall in T.E. Lawrence's (Lawrence of Arabia) Seven Pillars of Wisdom, that when he was captured by the Turks, he explained away his fairness by claiming to be Circassian. Yep, I remember that part. Traditionally Circassians are supposed to be tall and very slim (it's a national pride) so he could get away with it. Ottomans were obsessed with the looks of their Circassian slaves and wrote praises to their fair skin and hair. The Circassians I knew back in Turkey pretty much fit that mold too; fair and noticeably narrow waisted girls are often asked if their origins are Circassian. |
|
|
|
Post by SwordandCompass on Jul 31, 2004 17:00:56 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Melnorme on Jul 31, 2004 17:13:02 GMT -5
That's not 'Nordic', that's an Arab chick with hair dyed blonde.  |
|
