% of Negro Admixture in Hispanic Countries?

[Kukul-Kan]

I believe Carlos Ponce’s family isn’t native from Puerto Rico but from Cuba, just that instead of going to Miami they went to the island after Castro's revolution.

[Requiem]

Kukul-Kan said:

I believe Carlos Ponce’s family isn’t native from Puerto Rico but from Cuba, just that instead of going to Miami they went to the island after Castro's revolution.

Carlos Ponce was born on September 4, 1972 in Santurce, Puerto Rico.

So he is considered Puerto Rican, his parents are considered Cuban. Saying someone is Puerto Rican is like saying someone is Amercian or Canadian. Most Latin Amercian countries are like that. Every country from the "new World" is a melting pot. There are no true homogeneous types in most these countries. Besides full blooded natives, which are pretty rare in most of them.

There is no real hispanic look, no more than there is an Amercian or Canadian look.

[Kukul-Kan]

Requiem said:

Carlos Ponce was born on September 4, 1972 in Santurce, Puerto Rico.

So he is considered Puerto Rican, his parents are considered Cuban. Saying someone is Puerto Rican is like saying someone is Amercian or Canadian. Most Latin Amercian countries are like that. Every country from the "new World" is a melting pot. There are no true homogeneous types in most these countries. Besides full blooded natives, which are pretty rare in most of them.

There is no real hispanic look, no more than there is an Amercian or Canadian look.

Yes, but that only applies to the racial labels because, on the contrary, the national identities in Latin America are pretty clear and solid.

[Springa]

That's kind of weird, because the amerindian stock in Brazilians in general is pretty high. Actually there's more Amerindian than African blood circulating in Brazilian's veins, but here, people are usually classified according to their "social" group and to what they look like the most. There are many mulattos with clear amerindian traits, but they're just seen as mulattos. Also, many whites are genetically mestizos.
But it's not represented in this census probably because the Indian component, although very high in terms of genetics is culturally the least influential in mainstream Brazilian culture, so people don't indentify with Indians at all, culturally speaking. That's also because most of the mix between whites and indians occured up untill the 19th century, when more Europeans started to come, and when more Portuguese women became available.
Two examples:

Football player Vampeta: black man with clear Amerindian admixture.


This man wearing the typical Northeastern vaqueiro (cowboy) hat is predominantly white, but also has clear Amerindian traits, which often produces an alpinoid look that's very common in that region of the country, even among very light skinned people.

The 55% white thing includes anyone who's European enough to claim to be white to a researcher. If you made a DNA test and decided to classify as white only people with, say, less than 20% non-european blood, it would probably fall down to 40% or something. But again, someone with, say 75% european DNA with 12,5 black and 12,5 amerindian could look European, and a mestizo with only 25% Amerindian and the rest European could most likely look European.

So it's all a question of method and definitions of what the terms mean.

Requiem said:

Brazil = white (includes Portuguese, German, Italian, Spanish, Polish) 55%, mixed white and black 38%, black 6%, other (includes Japanese, Arab, Amerindian) 1%

[Octavivs]

Scoob said:

Check out Dienekes' blog. www.dienekes.com/blog

I think he has some info on this there. I know Mexicans assimilated a lot of blacks, and I think this helped "soften" their features in many cases (rounder/fleshier features), maybe 5-10% on average.

no, it was not a lot. Most Mexicans are hispano-amerindians and amerindians

[Octavivs]

sticazzi said:

I'd just like to add that the census figures for all countries in the Americas/Caribbean, are only really useful for indicating how people identify themselves, so it's a pretty rough indicator of actual racial composition. I don't think we'll ever know with any real accuracy, until someone takes genetic samples of the populations of such countries.

For example a lot of 'white' Brazilians are part Black, a lot of 'Black' Brazilians are part White, and also quite a lot of Brazilians (whether identified as White, Black, or Mulatto) are part Amerindian amongst other things (whereas Mexico is White-Amerindian/Mixed, with a small yet significant Black admixture).
Also you need to be careful with the interpreting the definitions from the census. Colombia is a good example:

mestizo 58%, white 20%, mulatto 14%, black 4%, mixed black-Amerindian 3%, Amerindian 1%

I'd say 'Mestizo' in this case means literally 'Mixed' rather than 'Mixed White-Amerindian', I'd say this group consists mostly of obvious Tri-racials (White-Amerindian-Black mixes), due to the significant size of the Black & Mixed Black identified population.

As for Puerto Rico & Dominican Republic:

(*) In the Dominican Republic, locally known as "Quisqueya" (Taíno. "The Great Island"), the mulatto population has absorbed the small number of Taino Amerindian strains once present in that country. In Puerto Rico, locally known as "Borinquen" (Taíno. "The Land of the Mighty Lord"), a historic mestizo population absorbed the small number of Taíno Amerindians once present, these mestizos were then themselves absorbed by the larger mulatto population.
- Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulatto

I think a lot more than 20% of Puerto Ricans have a significant proportion of African or Taino ancestry.

I'd say basically every South American country has significant African influences. Those on the West coast (like Peru, Bolivia, Chile), and Argentina probably have the least African influence. The East coast (i.e. Brazil, especially North East parts of Brazil) has the most African influence. The North, i.e. the Guyanas (like Guyana, Suriname, Fr. Guinea) and West Indies (mainly Trinidad) is probably the most racially diverse you can get, and has the most East Indian & Other Asian/Arab influence (although numerically *very* small when compared to White, Black, and Amerindian influence) in Latin America. Rest of the countries in South America (i.e. Colombia, Venezuela) vary over these 'relative' racial extemities. Central America & Mexico is mostly White-Amerindian.

Looking at maps & figures for the Slave-Trade can give you an idea of the scale of African influence in the Americas, and quite a few countries in the Americas have historical time records, with census figures over the centuries, that may help.

SOME white Brazilians have a distant Black or Amerindian ancestry, Blacks here are very rare, what people usually call Black in the streets are ineed mulattos, and the percentages are 40% "Pardo"(brown), where are included mulattos and caboclos(euramerindians). Caboclos are in more number than mulattos, but there is a big number of mulattos in the areas most covered by the media, so people think there a giant mulatto population here. There are too, between the "Browns", "cafuzos", who are a mix of Amerindian with Blacks.

That depends too about what State you are talking about.

[galvez]

It's hard to quantify such a thing and even if you did it would be meaningless -- I mean just going by simple percentages. In Latin America, as elsewhere, there has been ethnic and genetic segregation. There are all kinds of people in Latin America, even some Hallstatt Nordics (I don't know how they got there but they are visible, even in the U.S. as immigrants). Thus, a nation can be, percentage-wise, mostly African, and still have a significant minority-cluster of pure Europeans who are erroneously tagged as "part-Black" simply because the percentages are averaged. Now, I know this seems like an obvious point, but this point was overlooked in another forum.

A better question, perhaps, would be: what are the percentages of those with discernible African ancestry in these countries?

Of course, many are in denial about their heritage, and like to think of themselves as "White" regardless. So, you need a combination of an objective genetic test and a meaningful breakdown of the numbers.

[Requiem]

I read this article and thought of you guys, enjoy :

Culture, Rhythm and Plena Libre
An event sponsored by the Puerto Rico Federal Affairs Administration (PRFAA)
By Alejandra J. Ramos


She stood near the bar talking to a group of young students. Her hair flowed down her back in red waves and green eyes sparkled against her fair skin. My companion shook his head in disbelief.
"No way she’s Puerto Rican," he insisted. He had spent the entire night asking about people that didn’t seem to fit the traditional idea of a Puerto Rican. For the hundredth time, I laughed and explained, "We’re all really different. It’s a complete blend of cultures."

A mix of cultures and rhythms
This merging of cultures—Spanish, African, Taíno, and even French and Italian, just to name a few—was clearly evident that night. Puerto Ricans from all over the DC Metropolitan area gathered at the Dirksen Senate office building at a reception organized by the Puerto Rico Federal Affairs Administration (PRFAA).

Traditional foods such as pastelillos de carne (beef turnovers), Guineítos verdes en escabeche (pickled green bananas), and arroz con gandules (rice with pigeon peas) were piled high on numerous tables across the hall. The entertainment for the night reflected the medley of cultures that is Puerto Rico. The group Plena Libre came directly from the island to entertain the crowd with the sounds of the Puerto Rican Plena, one of two types of uniquely Puerto Rican music (the other being Bomba).

The origins of La Plena

Though away from the island, Plena is quickly regaining popularity among the younger generation of Puerto Ricans living in the continental United States. The music combines elements from the three main cultural backgrounds: the African tambourines known as panderetas, the Taíno güiro, a dried-out gourd with parallel grooves cut across its surface so that when rubbed with a stick, produces a raspy rhythmic noise, and the cuatro, derived from the Spanish guitars and brought to the island by the conquistadors. The Plena rhythm, which appeared over a hundred years ago, first served as a "living newspaper," through which stories about politics, scandals, and even the weather were told. The dance associated with Plena, originated in the south of the island, in Ponce, where it quickly became a trademark of Spanish coquetry.

Plena takes over the Nation’s Capital

These traditions of the past came back to life that evening in DC. People of all ages and skin tones met at the dance floor to celebrate the sounds of Puerto Rico, courtesy of Plena Libre, the group that is primarily responsible for bringing the music, once thought of only as folkloric, back into the mainstream. The group played a mix of traditional favorites such as "Que Bonita Bandera," and new hits such as "El Bembé de Plena."

When the band took a break, DJ Chris played Marc Anthony’s celebrated version of Preciosa and the crowd joined in, singing along to the unofficial Puerto Rican anthem. As the night came to a close and the food started to run out, the crowd refused to let the band leave, chanting "Otra! Otra!" in hopes that the group would perform one last dynamic rendition before going home.