England and Holland more celtic blood than germani

[executiona9]

A characteristic of irish/welsh/scottish people is the high amount of HG1 (=eu18) on the y-chromosome.

www.familytreedna.com/pdf/capelli2_CB.pdf

In this study they look at the amount of HG1 (=eu18) on the y-chromosome of English people. They test 12 towns in different parts in England. The average HG1 for England is 68,8 %. The study comes to the conclusion that English people are closer to Irish/Welsh/Scottish people than to Danes/Norwegians because of the high amount of HG1 in England. So the English have more celtic ancestry than germanic ancestry.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3514756.stm

another study that comes to the same conclusion that the anglo-saxons did not replace the celtic population in England.

hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/Science_2000_v290_p1155.pdf

a study that includes dutch people. Netherlands has on average 70,4 % HG1 according to the study. This is even more than England. So if the English are mostly celtic, than the dutch must automaticly also be mostly celtic

[Vitor]

that is right!
more HG-1 in britan, is that the celtic marker, I don't know...

i.1asphost.com/berschneider/Haplogroups.jpg

you can see high HG1 in most western countries...

[alex221166]

Vitor said:

that is right!
more HG-1 in britan, is that the celtic marker, I don't know...

i.1asphost.com/berschneider/Haplogroups.jpg

you can see high HG1 in most western countries...

HG1 is paleolithic. The peoples who presently have more Celtic traits are probably the Irish, the British and the French. In some cases, you will find Celtic traits in the Iberian Peninsula as well, but in a much much smaller scale.

The Dutch are definitely NOT Celtic. The Celts are largely held responsible from the presence of a large % of brachis in their ranks. I don't think that there are many brachis in Holland. From my recolections of the country, most of the people I saw were dolicocephals.

[executiona9]

HG1 is paleolithic. The peoples who presently have more Celtic traits are probably the Irish, the British and the French. In some cases, you will find Celtic traits in the Iberian Peninsula as well, but in a much much smaller scale.

The Dutch are definitely NOT Celtic. The Celts are largely held responsible from the presence of a large % of brachis in their ranks. I don't think that there are many brachis in Holland. From my recolections of the country, most of the people I saw were dolicocephals.

The prevalence of high amounts of HG1 on the y-chromosome of populations is indicative of Celtic ancestry :

Ireland : 89 % HG1

Wales : 89 % HG1

Scotland : about 80 % HG1

Netherlands : 70,4 % HG1

England : 68,8 % HG1

France : 52,2 % HG1

Germany : 50 % HG1

Norway : 26 % HG1

(SOURCE : some numbers come from : www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/98/9/5078.pdf)

You can see that Dutch people have much more HG1 than French people. Its therefore obvious that Dutch people have much more Celtic blood than French people.

The high incidence of HG1 in the Netherlands is very logic. Around the time 1000 or 500 BC the Netherlands was pure Celtic. When the Germanic tribes invaded the Netherlands they never replaced the Celtic aboriginal people of the Netherlands.

Broad heads (brachycephalic) have nothing to do with the Celts.

By the way : British and Irish people have on average slightly longer heads dan Dutch people, so your claim that the dutch are longheaded and the Brits and Irish are broadheaded is incorrect. In fact : its the opposite.

Cephalic indexes :

Ireland : 79
Britain : between 76 and 80
Netherlands : 80, 3

SOURCE : These data comes from the Races of Europe
www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/racesofeurope.htm

less than 75 = dolichocephalic
75-80 = mesocephalic
higher than 80 = brachycephalic

modern day celtic populations fall mostly into the category mesocephalic

[Melnorme]

Nobody can say that 'HG1=Celtic'. 'HG1' has been around long before Celts existed.

[executiona9]

Nobody can say that 'HG1=Celtic'. 'HG1' has been around long before Celts existed.

Yes that is true. Whether HG1 is celtic or not is still uncertain.
But in all places in Europe were the Celts have had an important role high amounts of HG1 are found, so it seems most likely that high amounts of HG1 correlate with celtic ancestry.

There is however 1 point we can be certain about :

English and Dutch people cluster more with the Irish/scottish/welsh than with the Norwegians and Danes, so this means that the English and Dutch cannot be mostly Germanic

[Graeme]

I have no proof of this, but I feel the Danes would cluster with the Dutch. In other words language affinities and genetic affinities are not related. The Norwegians and the Swedes would probably cluster separately also, from each other and the Danes. Language similarities does not mean genetic closeness. The Danes contributed to the English population especially in East Anglia and the old Danelaw areas. What you see with HG1 is probably an Atlantic/North Sea littoral breeding population which included former Keltic language speaking populations. The differences in pigmentation are purely the result of environmental adaptation within the same racial groups.

[executiona9]

I have no proof of this, but I feel the Danes would cluster with the Dutch

Denmark is 39 % HG1.
source : www.familytreedna.com/pdf/capelli2_CB.pdf

Netherlands is 70,4 % HG1.

In other words : the Danes and Dutch are very different from eachother in terms of genetics.

[Vitor]

I believe in Celtic culture, I do not believe that Celtics, were distinguishible (geneticaly) from the rest of the europeans...

France is very celtic right?
So why Iberia have more HG-1?

Is Iberia more celtic?
Or did the french received more blood from central Europe after Hg-1 colonization?

If that is the case, then why some say that celtics are from the east, not the west?

Some questions for you to think...

[alex221166]

executiona9 said:

Yes that is true. Whether HG1 is celtic or not is still uncertain.
But in all places in Europe were the Celts have had an important role high amounts of HG1 are found, so it seems most likely that high amounts of HG1 correlate with celtic ancestry.

There is however 1 point we can be certain about :

English and Dutch people cluster more with the Irish/scottish/welsh than with the Norwegians and Danes, so this means that the English and Dutch cannot be mostly Germanic

You should read this page I wrote several months ago

www.geocities.com/refuting_kemp/gene_intro.html

Here is a relevant part:

HG1

This is the most common haplogroup in Europe. The members of the HG1 chromosome family are regarded as the descendants of the Palaeolithic hunter-gatherers who arrived in Europe about 40.000 years ago. It is particularly common in Western Europe. HG1 is particularly high in Ireland (98,5%). The mutation defining HG1 has been dated at 23,000 YBP.


www.geocities.com/refuting_kemp/hg1_s.gif

[executiona9]

You should read this page I wrote several months ago

www.geocities.com/refuting_kemp/gene_intro.html

Here is a relevant part:

HG1

This is the most common haplogroup in Europe. The members of the HG1 chromosome family are regarded as the descendants of the Palaeolithic hunter-gatherers who arrived in Europe about 40.000 years ago. It is particularly common in Western Europe. HG1 is particularly high in Ireland (98,5%). The mutation defining HG1 has been dated at 23,000 YBP.


www.geocities.com/refuting_kemp/hg1_s.gif

I know about that. We can basically divide 99 % of the Europeans into 5 groups :

- Aurignacians (hg1 = eu18 = r1b)

- Gravettians (eu7 = I = part of hg2)

- Aryans (hg3 = eu19 = r1a)

- neolithic

- uralic

The first 3 groups account together for 80 % of all Europeans.