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Post by Vitor on May 19, 2004 18:39:20 GMT -5
well... do you believe in this tree? www.roperld.com/graphics/Pops72Phylo.jpgIf this is true then the mediterranean race like we are acostumed to think DO NOT EXIST! not even nordic or the celtic race! according to this there are 4-5 main races in Europe one in the west: british isles belgic spain Portugal italy bavaria etc... one in the center most of Germany slavic people etc.. and a few more the only race in the mediterranean that are clustered together are those in the eastern mediterranean. greeks palestinian arabs jews cypriots etc... that make sense if we follow the after Ice age colonization (haplogroups dispertion) After Ice age: After agricultural revolution: what you say about this? nonsense?
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Post by AWAR on May 19, 2004 20:26:01 GMT -5
Sure, but the last map is defnitely not the end of migrations and mutations.
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Post by AWAR on May 19, 2004 20:35:44 GMT -5
This fully corresponds to most everything we know about human migrations in Europe. I see it's a DNA map of what currently is, and it neatly shows the origins. Very nice and informative.
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Post by Graeme on May 20, 2004 9:39:11 GMT -5
Can someone give an explanation of the tree. To me it looks like the Mediterranean, Nordic etcetera thing in different form. For example the Scots, Dutch, Italian, French, Icelandic... are Keltic branch, and the Armenian, Greek, Jewish... are Mediterranean branch, and the Czech, Russian, Brahmin, Pathan... are Irano-Slavic branch, and Kalash, North Swede, Sardinian, Ukrainian... are an Indo-European branch, and there are Berber, Finno-Ugrian and a Northeast African branch. It does not follow the caucasian racial sub divisions exactly but it has similarities and a logic when physical characteristics are considered. Italians, French and the Dutch do have a large Keltic component in their make-up. The slavic speakers do have connections with Iranian speakers.
That is my opinion. I would like to hear some of yours.
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Post by Vitor on May 20, 2004 10:05:41 GMT -5
if being a cornish is being Kelt, then I am Kelt... Look the north portu (almoust hard to read) next to the cornish people... I am not nortth Portuguese but rather south+north portuguese..
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Post by Graeme on May 20, 2004 10:53:49 GMT -5
The Spanish and Portuguese are in the Keltic family, some people may disagree or hate that, but the Kelts were a large population of Iberia and they didn't melt into the soil when the invaders came.
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Post by Vitor on May 20, 2004 13:30:41 GMT -5
"some people may disagree or hate that"
I really don't understand why is that! If this people knew about real history, they will think differently...
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Post by Vitor on May 20, 2004 13:44:11 GMT -5
For me kelts are the original Iberian that after Ice age colonised western europe... Most of them received foreign culture elements (and some blood) with the agricultural revolution. nevertheless the core of population stayed the same! Megalithic monuments are all over Portugal (similar with stonehenge but smaller), some are older than stonehendge. Bagpipe is a traditional instrument not only in scottland...
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Post by AWAR on May 20, 2004 16:51:49 GMT -5
For me kelts are the original Iberian that after Ice age colonised western europe... Most of them received foreign culture elements (and some blood) with the agricultural revolution. nevertheless the core of population stayed the same! Megalithic monuments are all over Portugal (similar with stonehenge but smaller), some are older than stonehendge. Bagpipe is a traditional instrument not only in scottland... Actually, NO. The Iberians are genetically related to what today is left of the Celts as a linguistic group. In fact, the original Celts are said to have originated in central Europe ( although some say Celts were a neolithic people who originated in Anatolia ). The Celtic culture and language quickly spread from central Europe and made a significant cultural and linguistic impact on western and northwestern Europe. So, western Europeans are in a way ancestors of Celts, but in no way did Celts originate in w.Europe. Megaliths and bagpipes have nothing to do with Celts. Stonehenge was already ancient when Celts first saw it.
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Post by Vitor on May 20, 2004 23:10:57 GMT -5
we might start calling the western europeans megalithic people or something.. related to celts... I got it!
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Post by AWAR on May 21, 2004 6:20:15 GMT -5
we might start calling the western europeans megalithic people or something.. related to celts... I got it!
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Post by Vitor on May 21, 2004 8:15:19 GMT -5
you said: "So, western Europeans are in a way ancestors of Celts, but in no way did Celts originate in w.Europe." So are related...like I said. I like the name..megalithic race (well it does sound good) instead of the others (many) names used to indentify those belonging to the atlantic race.
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Post by nordicyouth on May 27, 2004 4:01:46 GMT -5
But the Celts existing in France and Iberia had a high degree of Liguran components that Celts in Central Europe didn't have. The Slavs and Iranians are linked linguistically and culturally, but the Slavs are a Uralic group with heavy Nordic admixture and some Celtic elements, with some Mediterranean admixture in the South (carpathians). The Balts were Balto-Slavs that headed north into Uralic territories whereas the Slavs were more concerned with the Germans, Celts, and Hungarians, etc.
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Post by executiona9 on May 27, 2004 8:40:51 GMT -5
Coon is outdated. We have dna now, and dna is much more reliable.
For example according to genetics the people with most HG1 are :
Basques 90 % Irish and Welsh 89 % Scottish 80 % Spaniards and Portuguese 70-80 % Dutch 70,4 % English 68,8 %
I dont have statistics regarding Belgium, but I would imagin Belgium would be similar in genetic make up as the Dutch.
These HG1 people are the people who spread the Aurignacian culture. Therefore I propose to call these people the Aurignacians.
These dna results show that North-West Europeans (Irish, welsh, scottish, english, dutch and belgians) are very similar in genetic make up as the South-West Europeans (Spaniards/Portuguese/Basques)
The reason why Spaniards/Portuguese/Basques are darker is because they live in warmer climates (Iberia), while North-West Europeans live in cooler climates which resulted in lots of blond, redhaired and blue and green eyed people.
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Post by Vitor on May 27, 2004 15:36:43 GMT -5
A difference in melanin concentration. I think Belgium have more HG1 than holland.
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