HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origi

[frosty]

This is an interesting study on Greeks. Notice the difference between modern Greeks and Macedonians.


Tissue Antigens
Volume 57 Issue 2 Page 118 - February 2001
doi:10.1034/j.1399-0039.2001.057002118.x


HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks
Authors' affiliations:A. Arnaiz-Villena1*, K. Dimitroski2*, A. Pacho1, J. Moscoso1, E. Gómez-Casado1, C. Silvera-Redondo1, P. Varela1, M. Blagoevska2, V. Zdravkovska2, J. Martínez-Laso1
Abstract: HLA alleles have been determined in individuals from the Republic of Macedonia by DNA typing and sequencing. HLA-A, -B, -DR, -DQ allele frequencies and extended haplotypes have been for the first time determined and the results compared to those of other Mediterraneans, particularly with their neighbouring Greeks. Genetic distances, neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analysis have been performed. The following conclusions have been reached: 1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), North Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese, Turks (Anatolians), Armenians and Iranians, 2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum, 3) Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. Both Greeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 alleles, such as *0305, *0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 and *1310. Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. The time period when these relationships might have occurred was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displacement of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt.

[Melnorme]

Not again.

www.dienekes.com/blog/archives/000361.html

[frosty]

The authors already defened themselves. The real problem was that their study on Palestinians and Jews was too politically incorrect. Read this.

Single-locus studies



Sir – Neil Risch et al. in Correspondence1 state that our paper2 on the genetic relatedness of Palestinians and Jews lacked scientific merit because its conclusions are based on data reported for a single-locus genetic marker (HLA-DRB1). Although the use of single-locus markers can lead to misleading results, single-locus studies, whether using HLA or other markers, are common in this field and are regularly published in the specialist literature.

In papers reporting data on a single locus, it is important not to take anomalous results at face value but to interpret them in the light of other types of data, such as historical, anthropological and linguistic data, as well as testing them using other genetic markers (see, for example, ref. 3). As we stated in ref. 2, we are currently investigating the populations reported in our paper using other markers.

Antonio Arnaiz-Villena
Department of Immunology (Microbiology), Faculty of Medicine, Universidad Complutense, 28040 Madrid, Spain
e-mail: [e-mail]

Eduardo Gomez-Casado & Jorge Martinez-Laso
Department of Immunology (Microbiology), Faculty of Medicine, Universidad Complutense, 28040 Madrid, Spain

[Melnorme]

Yes well I'm sure the Greeks of this forum can speak for themselves, but...

As we stated in ref. 2, we are currently investigating the populations reported in our paper using other markers.

There have been newer studies done with other markers. 2001 is old news.

[Artemidoros]

frosty said:

In papers reporting data on a single locus, it is important not to take anomalous results at face value but to interpret them in the light of other types of data, such as historical, anthropological and linguistic data, as well as testing them using other genetic markers (see, for example, ref. 3). As we stated in ref. 2, we are currently investigating the populations reported in our paper using other markers.

Would you be kind enough to pass on the "historical, anthropological and linguistic data" that link the Greeks with the Ethiopians and separate them from the Cretans, "Macedonians", Turks, Jews etc. ? You can post it here or in the history & prehistory
dodona.proboards24.com/index.cgi?board=history&action=display&thread=1079080123
or linguistics or anthropology or wherever you like. It will not take any space, I am sure ;D

[frosty]

There have been newer studies done with other markers. 2001 is old news.

So what? So we can use single marker studies to make Greeks Caucasian and turn Finland into Mongolia like Dienekes?

Would you be kind enough to pass on the "historical, anthropological and linguistic data" that link the Greeks with the Ethiopians and separate them from the Cretans, "Macedonians", Turks, Jews etc. ? You can post it here or in the history & prehistory

Read this
www.white-history.com/refuting_rm/7.html
Maybe those other populations are also mixed. We can already see that Greeks have some mixture.
Do you look like this guy?

[AWAR]

frosty said:

So what? So we can use single marker studies to make Greeks Caucasian and turn Finland into Mongolia like Dienekes?

So, use some more accurate, more recent study, don't rehash stuff that has been already discussed about and refuted more than 3 years ago.

Nobody claims that Finns are Mongolians, but, then, there must be a reason for the genetic markers that appear in Finland.... Are you trying to say that Saami don't exist???

Read this
www.white-history.com/refuting_rm/7.html
Maybe those other populations are also mixed. We can already see that Greeks have some mixture.

Do you look like this guy?

Nice picture, good actor, but he's ethnically a Gypsy.

It's like posting a black basketball player as a representative of a typical Scandinavian, or a Pakistani as example of a typical Englishman.

[Artemidoros]

frosty said:

Read this
www.white-history.com/refuting_rm/7.html
Maybe those other populations are also mixed. We can already see that Greeks have some mixture.
Do you look like this guy?

Are you stupid or just pretending to be? I asked you for scientific data, not the rumblings of a delirious Neo-Nazi like Anon. If you have it, post it. If not give us at least your opinion about how you think this relation between Greeks and Ethiopians came about.

I have posted my picture here and many people have seen it. I will consider reposting it for your benefit after you have posted yours. Do you look like all the people of your national group? That would be very interesting. Where might that nation live? What is it called?

[Dean]

AWAR said:

Nice picture, good actor, but he's ethnically a Gypsy.

Telly Savalas was a Gypsy?! His brother, George Savalas, didn't look like a Gypsy. I think Savalas' family is from Monemvasia in southern Greece.

As far as the HLA/Greeks crap, I would be ashamed to post here if I didn't have a clue as to what I'm saying.

[AWAR]

Dean said:

Telly Savalas was a Gypsy?! His brother, George Savalas, didn't look like a Gypsy. I think Savalas' family is from Monemvasia in southern Greece.

As far as the HLA/Greeks crap, I would be ashamed to post here if I didn't have a clue as to what I'm saying.

When he died, they said on the TV that he's a gypsy.

[Said Mohammad]

Artemidoros said:

Would you be kind enough to pass on the "historical, anthropological and linguistic data" that link the Greeks with the Ethiopians and separate them from the Cretans, "Macedonians", Turks, Jews etc. ? You can post it here or in the history & prehistory
dodona.proboards24.com/index.cgi?board=history&action=display&thread=1079080123
or linguistics or anthropology or wherever you like. It will not take any space, I am sure ;D

Frank Snowden did touch on this subject before he died.

[Samhain]

This is an interesting study on Greeks. Notice the difference between modern Greeks and Macedonians.

That team of researchers have already had papers dropped because they "lacked scientific merit". Let's analyze the study more closely and note what it really is trying to say:


The "study" is political because it implies Macedonians are the original "Greeks" and that modern day Greeks are imposters. As you can see from the study, all the other Mediterranean groups (Incl. Palestinians,
Kurds and Berbers etc) were all free of Negroid ancestry. Only the imposter Greeks(who are not the real Greeks, Macedonians are). So even if you propose to stand by this study, despite it being officially dropped, you still lose out -note how they use the term "older" Mediterranean.

From the study:

"Ancient Macedonians were among the peoples that lived between northern Greece (Thessaly) and Thrace in the Balkans and were considered by the classical Greeks as ``non-Greek barbarians'' that could not participate in the Greek Olympic Games ...Other possible explanation is that they might have shared a genetic background with the Greeks before an hypothetical admixture between Greeks and sub-
Saharas might have occurred. "




A few other things noted in the study:


The relationship of North Africans to Macedonians:

Cretans 8.38
Italians 10.45
French 14.41
Sardinians 17.66
Spaniards 17.76
Moroccan Jews 17.78
Non-Ashkenazi Jews 17.83
Lebanese (KZ) 20.98
Ashkenazi Jews 21.87
Algerians (Algiers) 22.37
Lebanese (NS) 23.29
Greeks (Attica) 23.69
Moroccans 25.47
Berbers (Souss) 28.50

What they say about the Fulani:

" The Fulani are semi-nomadic hunters and gatherers and one of the few people in the area to use cows' milk and its by-products to feed themselves and to trade; their facial parameters show a Caucasian admixture"


"The Nuba people are now widespread all over Sudan, but are descendants of the ancient Nubians that ruled Egypt between 8th–7th centuries B.C. (28) and later established their kingdom at Meroe, North Khartoum. Two kinds of Nubians were described in ancient times:
Reds and Blacks, probably reflecting the degree of Caucasian admixture."

So it shows it's not the classical Greek that have supposed African DNA, but modern-Day "Greeks". That all North Africans group with Europeans and not Sub-Saharan Africans. That Nubians and Fulani are
part Caucasian, and even though you still grasp onto this study, you still have to contend with their other one where they state North African Hamites are white. Out go Egyptians, classical Greeks, North Africans, Egyptians, Berbers, Moroccons etc etc. And for what? Modern day "Greeks" who are not the true Greek
(they claim)? You don't believe me? Of course not, so here is another study from them:


Iberia: population genetics, anthropology, and linguistics.

Arnaiz-Villena A, Martinez-Laso J, Alonso-Garcia J.

Department of Immunology and Molecular Biology, Hospital 12 de
Octubre, Universidad Complutense, Madrid, Spain.

Basques, Portuguese, Spaniards, and Algerians have been studied for HLA and mitochondrial DNA markers, and the data analysis suggests that pre-Neolithic gene flow into Iberia came from ancient white North Africans (Hamites). The Basque language has also been used to translate the Iberian-Tartesian language and also Etruscan and Minoan Linear A. Physical anthropometry of Iberian Mesolithic and Neolithic skeletons does not support the demic replacement in Iberia of preexisting Mesolithic people by Neolithic people bearing new farming technologies from Europe and the Middle East. Also, the presence of cardial impressed pottery in western Mediterranean Europe and across the Maghreb (North Africa) coasts at the beginning of the Neolithic provides good evidence of pre-Neolithic circum Mediterranean contacts by sea. In addition, pre-dynastic Egyptian El-Badari culture (4,500years ago) is similar to southern Iberian Neolithic settlements with regard to pottery and animal domestication. Taking the genetic,linguistic, anthropological, and archeological evidence together with the documented Saharan area desiccation starting about 10,000 yearsago, we believe that it is possible that a genetic and cultural pre- Neolithic flow coming from southern Mediterranean coasts existed toward northern Mediterranean areas, including at least Iberia and some Mediterranean islands.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?
cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10510567&dopt=Abstract

[Samhain]

Frank Snowden did touch on this subject before he died.

Really now? Would you like to recite what he said, what his concusions were? I can help you out if you're stuck...

[Melnorme]

Trog said:

Iberia: population genetics, anthropology, and linguistics.

Arnaiz-Villena A, Martinez-Laso J, Alonso-Garcia J.

Department of Immunology and Molecular Biology, Hospital 12 de
Octubre, Universidad Complutense, Madrid, Spain.

Basques, Portuguese, Spaniards, and Algerians have been studied for HLA and mitochondrial DNA markers, and the data analysis suggests that pre-Neolithic gene flow into Iberia came from ancient white North Africans (Hamites). The Basque language has also been used to translate the Iberian-Tartesian language and also Etruscan and Minoan Linear A. Physical anthropometry of Iberian Mesolithic and Neolithic skeletons does not support the demic replacement in Iberia of preexisting Mesolithic people by Neolithic people bearing new farming technologies from Europe and the Middle East. Also, the presence of cardial impressed pottery in western Mediterranean Europe and across the Maghreb (North Africa) coasts at the beginning of the Neolithic provides good evidence of pre-Neolithic circum Mediterranean contacts by sea. In addition, pre-dynastic Egyptian El-Badari culture (4,500years ago) is similar to southern Iberian Neolithic settlements with regard to pottery and animal domestication. Taking the genetic,linguistic, anthropological, and archeological evidence together with the documented Saharan area desiccation starting about 10,000 yearsago, we believe that it is possible that a genetic and cultural pre- Neolithic flow coming from southern Mediterranean coasts existed toward northern Mediterranean areas, including at least Iberia and some Mediterranean islands.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?
cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10510567&dopt=Abstract

Yes, Mynydd is a fan of this one.

[Said Mohammad]

Trog said:

That team of researchers have already had papers dropped because they "lacked scientific merit". Let's analyze the study more closely and note what it really is trying to say:


The "study" is political because it implies Macedonians are the original "Greeks" and that modern day Greeks are imposters. As you can see from the study, all the other Mediterranean groups (Incl. Palestinians,
Kurds and Berbers etc) were all free of Negroid ancestry. Only the imposter Greeks(who are not the real Greeks, Macedonians are). So even if you propose to stand by this study, despite it being officially dropped, you still lose out -note how they use the term "older" Mediterranean.

From the study:

"Ancient Macedonians were among the peoples that lived between northern Greece (Thessaly) and Thrace in the Balkans and were considered by the classical Greeks as ``non-Greek barbarians'' that could not participate in the Greek Olympic Games ...Other possible explanation is that they might have shared a genetic background with the Greeks before an hypothetical admixture between Greeks and sub-
Saharas might have occurred. "




A few other things noted in the study:


The relationship of North Africans to Macedonians:

Cretans 8.38
Italians 10.45
French 14.41
Sardinians 17.66
Spaniards 17.76
Moroccan Jews 17.78
Non-Ashkenazi Jews 17.83
Lebanese (KZ) 20.98
Ashkenazi Jews 21.87
Algerians (Algiers) 22.37
Lebanese (NS) 23.29
Greeks (Attica) 23.69
Moroccans 25.47
Berbers (Souss) 28.50

What they say about the Fulani:

" The Fulani are semi-nomadic hunters and gatherers and one of the few people in the area to use cows' milk and its by-products to feed themselves and to trade; their facial parameters show a Caucasian admixture"


"The Nuba people are now widespread all over Sudan, but are descendants of the ancient Nubians that ruled Egypt between 8th–7th centuries B.C. (28) and later established their kingdom at Meroe, North Khartoum. Two kinds of Nubians were described in ancient times:
Reds and Blacks, probably reflecting the degree of Caucasian admixture."

So it shows it's not the classical Greek that have supposed African DNA, but modern-Day "Greeks". That all North Africans group with Europeans and not Sub-Saharan Africans. That Nubians and Fulani are
part Caucasian, and even though you still grasp onto this study, you still have to contend with their other one where they state North African Hamites are white. Out go Egyptians, classical Greeks, North Africans, Egyptians, Berbers, Moroccons etc etc. And for what? Modern day "Greeks" who are not the true Greek
(they claim)? You don't believe me? Of course not, so here is another study from them:


Iberia: population genetics, anthropology, and linguistics.

Arnaiz-Villena A, Martinez-Laso J, Alonso-Garcia J.

Department of Immunology and Molecular Biology, Hospital 12 de
Octubre, Universidad Complutense, Madrid, Spain.

Basques, Portuguese, Spaniards, and Algerians have been studied for HLA and mitochondrial DNA markers, and the data analysis suggests that pre-Neolithic gene flow into Iberia came from ancient white North Africans (Hamites). The Basque language has also been used to translate the Iberian-Tartesian language and also Etruscan and Minoan Linear A. Physical anthropometry of Iberian Mesolithic and Neolithic skeletons does not support the demic replacement in Iberia of preexisting Mesolithic people by Neolithic people bearing new farming technologies from Europe and the Middle East. Also, the presence of cardial impressed pottery in western Mediterranean Europe and across the Maghreb (North Africa) coasts at the beginning of the Neolithic provides good evidence of pre-Neolithic circum Mediterranean contacts by sea. In addition, pre-dynastic Egyptian El-Badari culture (4,500years ago) is similar to southern Iberian Neolithic settlements with regard to pottery and animal domestication. Taking the genetic,linguistic, anthropological, and archeological evidence together with the documented Saharan area desiccation starting about 10,000 yearsago, we believe that it is possible that a genetic and cultural pre- Neolithic flow coming from southern Mediterranean coasts existed toward northern Mediterranean areas, including at least Iberia and some Mediterranean islands.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?
cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10510567&dopt=Abstract

Thats study is crap. First of all, the study says Fulnai show Caucasoid mixture in facial paramenters, meaning their looks not genes. They have NO substantial Caucasoid mixture, just negligible. I have been over this issue far too many times with you about Fulani, they are indeed partly my people, at least the one in Northern Nigeria.

Number two, Red Noba has nothing to do whatsoever with any levels of Caucasoid mixture, it merely reflects those populations that live closest to the Red Sea. The name Eritrea literally means land near the Red Sea or something to that effect, that is for certain.