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Post by Silveira on Jan 5, 2004 7:24:02 GMT -5
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Post by Centurion on Jan 7, 2004 18:31:24 GMT -5
Almost the entire population of the Azores is of Portuguese stock. Here's a brief history of the islands:
The islands were pristine until the 15th century; there were no indigenous peoples, and no one had ever settled there. They were known to exist, for in the Medici Atlas of 1351 the seven islands of the central and eastern groups are shown. Less than a century later the Portuguese 'Age of Discoveries' began and they made the first recorded landfalls on Madeira (c1419), the Azores (c1427), Cape Verdes (1456-60), St Helena and Ascension (1501-02), and Tristan da Cunha (c1506). Bartolomeu Dias rounded the Cape of Good Hope in 1488 and thus opened access to the Indian Ocean, and Pedro Álvares Cabral landed in Brazil in 1500, to say nothing of the numerous inland expeditions in Africa and elsewhere. It is not known for certain who discovered the islands for the Portuguese, nor the exact dates; numerous stories abound from which to take your choice. One I rather like which caps the debate is that a caravel came upon them by chance when sailing homewards from the west coast of Africa using the trade winds. Another is that Prince Henry ordered one Gonçalo Velho Cabral to sail westwards to find the islands he thought must exist. Cabral found only the Formigas rocks, the Ants, and went back home, getting a low mark from the Sagres management school. Sent out again the following year, and sailing 15 miles distant from the Ants, a much better prospect came into view. Since it was August 15, the Feast of the Assumption, he called the island Santa Maria and was later appointed Governor. São Miguel was supposedly discovered when an escaped slave clambered up a hill and saw a much larger island in the distance; this was settled in 1444. By chance some unknown mariners spotted a third island, and with a stroke of originality called it Terceira, Third Island. Another version is that Prince Henry sent out caravels, date unknown, to find the islands and they discovered five, later named Santa Maria, São Miguel, Terceira, Faial and Pico. Most popular accounts give Diogo de Silves the credit for finding the first island, Santa Maria, in 1427. In 1439 Alfonso V sanctioned Henry to settle seven islands, so they must have been discovered before that year. Flores and Corvo were certainly added last. The usual practice was followed when discovering islands; cattle, goats and pigs were landed to provide future food, and also very likely to begin the tremendous task of penetrating the dense vegetation. Settlers came from mainland Portugal, particularly the Algarve and Alentejo, and from Madeira. Portugal's population was only 1 1/2 million, so Henry encouraged immigration from Flanders and for a time the Azores were known as the Flemish Islands because so many settled there.
The first settlers faced an enormous task and probably used fire to begin to clear the vegetation. On some of the islands this would have revealed a very stony soil, and especially on Pico it must have been heartbreaking. Huge neatly piled stacks of stones metres square and 2m tall remain witness to this tenacity and determination, as do the numerous stone walls. With such an inhospitable coastline wherever it was possible to land must have dictated the location of those first settlements. When one looks at them today, they still appear daunting, often at the foot of steep cliffs or ravines. Farming slowly spread across the islands as the vegetation was cleared and by the next century there was a surplus of production for export: wheat for the Portuguese garrison in North Africa, sugar and woad for dyeing to Flanders. Each island grew more of the crops that best suited its climate and terrain.
From the early days of subsistence agriculture and the development of the first cash crops these have changed through the centuries as fortune has favoured wine on Pico, or oranges on São Miguel, then tea and pineapples, tobacco, chicory, sugar beet, even a hectare or two of African marigolds -dried petals were exported for hen feed to make them lay eggs with dark yellow yolks.
Now, more than ever before, all the islands produce grass, their most important crop, and milk and cattle are the most important farm enterprises. Most of the cattle are dairy cows, mainly Friesian and some Holstein and at least one farmer claims there is an Azores own breed. Fifteen years ago there were about 10,000 dairy farmers with an average herd size of seven cows; change has come, but still there are many small herds. The main dairy products are cheese, butter and milk powder, with the surplus exported to mainland Portugal and the USA Beef is on the increase, both for home consumption and for export. Fishing, especially tuna, has also played an important role in the economy and there are several fleets and canning factories.
The Azores, although so distant from the Portuguese mainland, nevertheless have often played an important part in Portuguese history. They contributed to the conquest, defence and supply of the Portuguese strongholds on the North African coast, caravels stopped in the Azores on their return from India , they supported the ships sailing to the Americas, and they strongly resisted Spanish domination between 1580 and 1640. Two centuries later the islands featured in the Liberals' struggle with the Absolutists; two presidents in the First Republic came from the Azores and, most recently, the islands provided important bases for the allies in the two Great Wars, and in the Gulf War.
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Post by Caipira on Feb 3, 2004 12:40:29 GMT -5
If Azorean descendents at Santa Catarina have "Iberian-Black-Jewish" ancestry, it doesn't mean that Azoreans are the same... They could get these admixture here in Brazil...
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WB
Full Member
Posts: 140
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Post by WB on Feb 4, 2004 16:04:12 GMT -5
That's unbelievable. Some people...
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Praetor
Full Member
Graecus in Fennia
Posts: 246
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Post by Praetor on Feb 4, 2004 19:26:26 GMT -5
Greeks and Italians get a lot of bashing too from nordicists but this thing that goes on against Portugal is insane.Guys like Alex and Silveira,though, defend their country succesfully with dignity.Carry on the good job guys.
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WB
Full Member
Posts: 140
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Post by WB on Feb 9, 2004 16:42:52 GMT -5
Yeah, I mean I don't have anything against mixed people but you gotta respect how nationalities identify themselves.
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Post by Vimara on Feb 9, 2004 17:56:35 GMT -5
Someone should post this in "skai" SCANDINAVIANS ARE ASHKENAZI ,ASIAN MONGOLIOD MIX and for the "slavs" all you have to do is say " YOUR COUNTRY HISTORYS IDENTITY IS DERIVED FROM THE WORD "SLAVE" !!!!!i dont mean to offend anyone who is "slav" decent but im trying to make a joke ok
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Post by Springa on Feb 18, 2004 9:55:33 GMT -5
The difference between the Azoreans and the continental Portuguese is their weird accent. That's all...
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Post by Necronomicom on Feb 18, 2004 12:20:55 GMT -5
Some deluded Brazuca at skadi.net who apparently does not know the correct spelling of the word "Azorean" posted a genetic study conducted in the Azores and on Azorean descendants in Santa Catarina (Brazil) claiming that it "proves" that Azoreans are of mixed "Iberian-Black-Jewish" ancetsry. Pay no attention to Euclides, he is a troll that thinks South Brazil is a nordic-Germanic land, he is also part of the non-nordic nordicists crew. In another threat he said that the Italians were not considered white by the Brazilians
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Post by Euclides on Mar 24, 2004 8:55:14 GMT -5
''Some deluded Brazuca at skadi.net who apparently does not know the correct spelling of the word "Azorean" posted a genetic study conducted in the Azores and on Azorean descendants in Santa Catarina (Brazil) claiming that it "proves" that Azoreans are of mixed "Iberian-Black-Jewish" ancetsry. A Portuguese man going by the handle "Martim Moniz" responded with photos from São Miguel in which the bulk of the people are obviously Caucasian and look like ordinary Portuguese from mainland Portugal. www.skadi.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7068'' Leia novamente os artigos e perceba que temos dois estudos diferentes.Ambos estão mostrando componente não caucasiano entre a população açoriana, tanto nos que emigraram para o novo mundo, quanto na população original de Açores.
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Post by Graeme on Mar 24, 2004 9:18:00 GMT -5
You should ignore the strange rantings of the supposed Nordids on skadi. Most of them think being part German or Irish makes them Nordids when Nordids are a minority in those countries where they are supposed to be found behind every bush or rock. Look at the examples that appear in Coon's book - if they're Nordids my left toe is Jewish and the right one Hungarian. Even Coon admits that the Nordids have mostly brownish hair and mixed eyes. And the differences between the Northerners and the Southerners diminishes after puberty anyway. What I find odd is the way pictures of unusual looking Northerners with pseudo mongoloid features are posted and they are classified as typically Anglo-Saxon. What a laugh. And they have the hide to pick on Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, Greek and the Azorean island people.
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Post by Euclides on Mar 24, 2004 9:28:01 GMT -5
I posted more of one scientific article , both shows no caucasian admixture in two azorian populations : in Azorians Islands and Brazilian descendents.
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Post by Centurion on Mar 24, 2004 10:38:37 GMT -5
The non-Caucasian admixture in the Azores is very minor (less then Central and Southern Portugal). Here's part of the study:
Frequencies of the main haplogroups found in Madeira and Açores archipelagos, as well as in Portugal, Canary Islands, Cabo Verde and North Africa (n is the sample number; MA Madeira, AÇ Açores, PN Portugal North, PC Portugal Central, PS Portugal South, NA North Africa, CV Cabo Verde, CA Canary Islands).
MA AÇ<br>PNa PCa PSa NAb CVc CAd
(n=155) (n=179) (n=183) (n=161) (n=195) (n=147) (n=293) (n=300)
H 36.2 45.2 43.2 48.4 47.2 30.6 0.3 37.6
I 1.3 2.2 2.7 - 0.5 - - 1.0
J 2.6 7.3 4.4 7.5 8.2 6.1 - 7.0
K 6.5 2.8 3.8 8.1 6.1 4.7 - 4.0
T 7.7 10.1 14.2 8.7 7.7 8.2 0.3 12.7
U (except U6) 15.5 15.0 13.6 10.6 8.2 10.2 0.3 10.3
U6 3.9 1.7 4.4 1.9 - 10.2 3.1 14.0
Pre-V 7.1 5.6 6.6 3.7 4.1 4.1 1.0 2.0
W 1.9 2.8 3.3 1.2 2.1 - - 1.0
X 0.6 0.6 - 1.8 3.6 0.7 0.7 2.7
L1 4.5 2.2 - 1.2 2.6 6.1 15.4 2.0
L2 2.6 0.6 2.2 1.8 4.6 8.8 41.6 1.3
L3* 5.8 0.6 1.1 4.3 4.1 5.4 36.5 3.3
Eurasian (total) 83.3 93.3 96.2 91.9 87.7 74.8 5.4 92.3
Sub-Saharans (total) 14.8 4.5 3.3 8.1 11.8 24.5 93.6 6.7
Other 1.9 2.2 0.5 - 0.5 0.7 0.7 1.0
Gene diversity (±SD) 0.9647 (0.0103) 0.9415 (0.0140)
aPooled data from González et al. (2003) and Pereira et al. (2000) bData from Rando et al. (1998) cData from Brehm et al. (2002) dData from Rando et al. (1999)
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Post by Centurion on Mar 24, 2004 10:54:59 GMT -5
BTW, that Brazilian study of the " partially isolated communities of Santa Catarina Island" was a joke. Those people obviously weren't pure Azoreans. It showed they had 7.7% Amerindian admixture.
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Post by alex221166 on Mar 24, 2004 14:22:44 GMT -5
The non-Caucasian admixture in the Azores is very minor (less then Central and Southern Portugal). Here's part of the study: Your values for Portugal are incorrect. The Negroid markers are L1 (L1a, L1b, L1c) , L2, L3 (L3b, L3d, L3e) and N/M/L3, also known as L3*. From my site www.geocities.com/refuting_kemp/anon_negroid_dna_1.htmlHere, you can also see the table from the Gonzalez study (which already included the samples used by Pereira et al 2000): www.geocities.com/refuting_kemp/Gonzalez.gifOverall, the values of Negroid mtDNA for Portugal would be 3,4% for Northern Portugal 6,8% for Central Portugal 10,6% for Southern Portugal They might actually be lower than this (roughly less 2% mtDNA for each region) if the dubious N/M/L marker turns out to be caucasoid instead of Negroid...
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