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'che'
Jan 4, 2004 12:58:34 GMT -5
Post by Silveira on Jan 4, 2004 12:58:34 GMT -5
I think Franco was neither actively pro-Jewish or anti-Jewish. The Jews as an organized group were not a factor in Spanish political or social life in the 20th century given their tiny numbers and virtual inexistance in that country. It is true that many of Franco´s supporters were sympathetic to nazi Germany (especially before they began losing the war) but Franco himself was suspicious of Germany´s intentions and would never put the interests of a foreign country over those of Spain. Franco actually allowed many Jews to seek refuge and safe passage through Spain when many were leaving central Europe during the nazi period.
Many Jews from developed Western countries were pro-Communist in the first part of the 20th century and this could explain the presence of American Jews in the International Brigades. However, there is no proof that the indigenous Spanish supporters of the marxist and anarchist Republican factions had any more real Sephardic ancestry than the supporters of the various pro-Franco traditionalist Catholic groups. The Spaniards from the 1930s were not very aware of their potential Sephardic ancestors from the 1500s, nor did they have any reliable means of acertaining their Jewish ancestry.
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'che'
Jan 4, 2004 13:27:33 GMT -5
Post by Melnorme on Jan 4, 2004 13:27:33 GMT -5
Arthur Kemp's view : Better a Nordic communist than a nationalist who uses 'Moorish' troops.
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'che'
Jan 4, 2004 13:45:48 GMT -5
Post by Silveira on Jan 4, 2004 13:45:48 GMT -5
Kemp subtely implies that Franco was a part of the "grand Jewish conspiracy" because of his refusal to put the interests of foreign nations such as Germany above those of his native Spain, his short and swart appearance, as well as his use of Moorish troops.
Of course, if Kemp ran things he would have defeated the communists with Norwegian and Swedish troops exclusively and would then proceed to eliminate the part of the Spain´s population which isn´t "pure" enough for him.
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'che'
Jan 5, 2004 9:51:46 GMT -5
Post by Kukul-Kan on Jan 5, 2004 9:51:46 GMT -5
I agree with you that Franco seemed to be neither pro nor anti-Jewish. The problem is that the Spanish Civil war cannot be seen as a racial or even ethnic conflict but as a political war in which people from the same villages and families fought on different sides of the conflict. You can very well talk about the Basque anarchists on one side and about the traditionalist Carlist Basques on the other, for example. Kemp seems to dislike the use of the Moorish troops that belonged to the Spanish African Army, but he must not know that in the same African Army there were people from all over Europe and especially Germany in the Spanish Foreign Legion. Moreover the Spanish African army was better trained, prepared and had something that the Continental Spanish Army lacked, battle experience. Plus most of the Spanish Moorish troops were from Riff, which is overwhelmingly Caucasoid. He must also ignore the use of Tsarist Russians and Irish troops among the Nationalist troops. But of course another sign of racial impurity on the Nationalist side were the Viriatos(j/k). By the way, here’s an interesting article on the foreign soldiers, including Jews, that fought on the nationalist side. Apparently some Jews even joined the Spanish Falange(I guess the the idea of worldwide Hispanic unity also attracted Sephardim): www.iespana.es/historiadehistoria/contmpcuartaed.htm
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'che'
Jan 5, 2004 10:25:29 GMT -5
Post by Silveira on Jan 5, 2004 10:25:29 GMT -5
There were people from various nationalities who enlisted in both sides during the Spanish Civil War. For example, we find Marxist-inspired American Blacks on the Republican side and mulatto Brazilians (supporters of the Acção Integralista Brasilieira) on the Franquista side. We find "Aryan" Germans on Franco´s side and equally "Aryan" European and North American communists (such as Ernest Hemmingway) on the Republican side. Anyone who tries to paint this conflict as an "Aryan vs. Jew racial" conflict is an idiot. There were no real ethnic diferences between the Spaniards who alligned with the two rival factions, except perhaps the vague Catalan, Basque, and Valencian republican tendency and the nationalist tendency which was dominant in most of the rest of Spain.
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'che'
Jan 5, 2004 11:36:53 GMT -5
Post by Springa on Jan 5, 2004 11:36:53 GMT -5
I've read that the Falanges, and notably the "moorish" troops had a habit of raping "enemy" women. Does anyone know if a significant number of children came out of that?
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'che'
Jan 6, 2004 11:43:11 GMT -5
Post by Kukul-Kan on Jan 6, 2004 11:43:11 GMT -5
I've read that the Falanges, and notably the "moorish" troops had a habit of raping "enemy" women. Does anyone know if a significant number of children came out of that? Atrocities have been attached to both Republicans and Nationalists. The Falangists were part of the Nationalists but not every soldier on the nationalist side was a Falangist. The Falangists were not part of the Spanish regular army whereas the Moorish troops were. Here are the points of the Spanish “Falange” on which their ideology relied: www.falange.org/26points.htm
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'che'
Jan 6, 2004 12:34:58 GMT -5
Post by Silveira on Jan 6, 2004 12:34:58 GMT -5
According to pro-Falange Spanish historian José Luis Jerez Riesco, the Portuguese national-sindicalist leader Francisco Rolão Preto (exiled in Spain and living at the time in José António´s house) played a part in the elaboration of the political programme of the Falange. Foto of Rolão Preto and his blue-shirt supporters in 1933, before his movement was "neutralized" by Salazar:
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