Post by galvez on Dec 15, 2003 23:08:19 GMT -5
I decided to post virtually all comments in response to my posting my photo. The good and the bad are posted. I have done a little editing to make the posts clearer and easier to understand. I said before that I have been classified all over the map -- so I will post the responses for others (if they care) to analyze and perhaps comment on.
Some details: the group at Skadi saw me from a distance, but the second group, starting from VI saw a good close-up of me, that may have made me out to be swarthier than I am due to the lack of lighting and background (my eyes are olive green mostly with only a tiny bit of brown, but one person thought they looked brownish due to the effect of the photo and thought my hair was blackish, which it most definitely is not).
Another note: one person (Danolord) said I looked Armenoid but I take no offense to it. Like I said, I have been placed all over the map. Additionally, I posted multiple comments or responses from some individuals, so their responses should not be taken as responses from different individuals -- they just happened to make the most noise.
An objective analysis shows that out of the 9 who openly analyzed me, 4 said I was Med or largely Med (the individual giving the most detailed analysis put me as Paleo-Atlantid as did another in hindsight), 2 said I was predominantly Dinaric, one said I was Cro-Magnid, one said I was Alpine, and one classified me as Brünn -- "I completely place you in a 'Nordish classification' without question..." That's less than 50% accuracy -- so understandably that leaves me a bit skeptical of the classifiers. "Med" was the most common classification, although when I was classified as a Med -- even with a pic of me making me out as swarthy -- classifiers tended to see other elements. Even those who classified me as a Med put me in the East rather than in the West. By the way, I do not have a hook-nose, so I honestly have no idea where the Armenoid and Dinarid come from.
I also want to add that I am happy as a Med, just a bit skeptical about the whole "Nordish" concept because I always thought of myself as a typical Med.
The comments:
I. Dalonord:
Eastern Med generally with perhaps a Dinaric/Armenoid cast.
II. AWAR:
He looks like a cross between a Greek and a Hungarian.
III. Vojvoda:
I see strong CroMagnid features, wide and high forehead, protruding bi-gonials.
IV. Stríbog:
Predominantly Dinaric IMO.
V. Louky:
With your broad and long face, long and thin nose, "pointed chin," brunette tone, and presumably at least moderately tall stature, I'd agree with the basic classification of Dinarid. However, you are not a typical example. For instance, the shape of your ears is not typical of Dinarids and I would be surprised to see from a side-angled picture that you could be described as "high headed." So, I'd say you were principally Dinarid with UP admixture, probably either Alpinid or Faelid.
=-=-=-=-=
VI. Nordishracedude:
A) I think you might be Alpine - Or using the Nordish concept - Alpish.
After calling me Alpine, he asserted after I divulged my identity:
B) I mean he is a shining example: Why can't Europids who are outside Nordish range just be happy being what they are - I'm central Nordish and I'm so from birth, not from some social ability or non-physical factors.
VII. Nordsforever:
A) You look to be of a mostly Mediterranean-Alpine mix: short, rounded jaw; brunette pigmentation with blackish curley hair - are the most notable.
B) -ish would be partial, but still predominant. He may be slightly more Med than Alpine.
C) His forehead is high, and may have influence from Brünn or Slavic ancestry, but everything else is non-Nordish. Don't be confused by some Gaels looking similar to him - as there have been old migrations from Mediterranean and Dinaric races into Ireland and Britain. Every individual in Ireland and Britain is not Nordish. His face/jaw is really more Alpinish, IMO. Brünns are more rugged (John Wayne). He has a smooth facial structure. Overall, Medish or peripheral Med, rather than the other way around.
D) I would say a better comparison with the man of the moment is the Paleo-Atlantid, which is basically Med altered by some British Nordish ancestry (Brünn, Keltic Nordic or Anglo-Saxon). Now when does the Nordish periphery cline more into a Medish periphery? IMO, I think Zeta-Jones is more on the Medish side. I guess it's up to the individual, or someone needs to come up with a reasonable way to define boundaries in a perceivable and consistent way. Certainly it must be functional in the sense of a peripheral subject being 'more conducive to reproducing Central types'. If all Nords end up being peripheral Nords, we're dead. The concept of a periphery is only in the case of the subjects being able to be reabsorbed and positive to maintaining the Central Nords. Obviously a peripheral Nordish Negro is unacceptable, and a Nordish Asian, and in most cases a Nordish Semite. Many of these Med/Alpine-Nord peripheral types may not be harmful, especially in the case of the Atlanto's, as SNPA defines, but the Paleo's are another thing, IMO.
After I divulged my identity:
E) Just a few points: To be more clear, I meant you were predominantly Mediterranean with the remaining being Alpine, and possibly some Brünn or eastern Nordish peripheral type because of your tall forehead and longer nose. Although tall foreheads can sometimes be purely Alpine, and the longer nose could also be from an eastern Mediterranean source. So I would guess at your ancestry from looking at your picture you gave it down like this: Mediterranean 60%, Alpine 30%, Other 10%. So, it is true then, at least from an ethnic point of view, you are Mediterranean. Your phenotype doesn't differ too much from that type. Mr. Saxony also said you were Brünn, which is technically not Nordic, although many seem to group people of UP ancestry into that category.
F) I said your hair looked curly (at the top), which it did. But since you say this is a temporary look via gel, then so be it. Some people that are a clinal range of straight and curly haired inheritance will often have a curl at the end, rather than a tight curl all the way through. This is what it looked like to me. Your eyes also looked brownish, perhaps a hazel then? They didn't look purely of a light green or light variety. This is the case with many sub-racial mixes, they have a mixed brown, light-eyed type. Of course, as I've said before, including 2 or more pics of someone to be analyzed is best. Otherwise we don't catch all the nuances.
G) I don't recall saying you were Nordic, but rather may have some Nordish ancestry via Brünn or a peripheral Slavic type. Why should you take offense at me using the word swarthy? It's an accurate description. Just as calling Nords fair-skinned, or light-skinned. Unless for some reason everyone thinks that Mediterranean pigmentation is ugly?
VIII. Michaelsson51:
A) I see a lot of Mediterranean.
After I divulged my identity:
B) I knew you were a Med. LOL!
IX. Son_of_saxony:
A) There will probably be few that agree with me, but I think he may have quite a bit of Brünn and lite on the Med.
After I divulged my identity:
B) You make it sound as if I placed you or a person with your racial 'features' goosestepping it high and mighty with the SS in Nürnberg, 1934. Please know that NO offense is intended by that last statement. If I thought you were mainly 'Nordic' I would have stated as such. My meaning here is not to be a 'S.O.B.', but rather to state that 'Nordic' and 'Nordish' are not one and the same. 'Brünn' is of Upper Palaeolithic stock... I completely place you in a 'Nordish classification' without question, however, as far as 'Nordic' is involved with your make up it is twice removed. It is all splitting hairs, but I feel that Nordsforever hit the nail right on the head with 'Paleo-Atlantid', which has at least one leg of its roots in 'Brünn'. In 20/20 hindsight I should have leaned on the 'Meds' side more; but I have seen in the past just how little 'blood' is needed to 'warm' the pigmentation of the skin...blah, blah, blah... you get the idea. Like most Men of my Ilk, (lol), I like to be represented by my own words and not by a slightly wrong varied interpretation of them. You seem to be a 'Right Man'... no chips on either of our shoulders so let's be through with it Sir :^) Yours Sincerely, Son of Saxony
C) I think you did the right thing by not stating any information to sway our judgement on how we see it (or perhaps I should say you). I must say I had some preconceived notions because of a good friend I had years ago who was from Northern Ireland. This guy could easily have been your stunt double or vice versa; minus a few degrees of pigmentation and his eyes are blue. I always try to start with the skull and stay with the skull first and foremost.
Some details: the group at Skadi saw me from a distance, but the second group, starting from VI saw a good close-up of me, that may have made me out to be swarthier than I am due to the lack of lighting and background (my eyes are olive green mostly with only a tiny bit of brown, but one person thought they looked brownish due to the effect of the photo and thought my hair was blackish, which it most definitely is not).
Another note: one person (Danolord) said I looked Armenoid but I take no offense to it. Like I said, I have been placed all over the map. Additionally, I posted multiple comments or responses from some individuals, so their responses should not be taken as responses from different individuals -- they just happened to make the most noise.
An objective analysis shows that out of the 9 who openly analyzed me, 4 said I was Med or largely Med (the individual giving the most detailed analysis put me as Paleo-Atlantid as did another in hindsight), 2 said I was predominantly Dinaric, one said I was Cro-Magnid, one said I was Alpine, and one classified me as Brünn -- "I completely place you in a 'Nordish classification' without question..." That's less than 50% accuracy -- so understandably that leaves me a bit skeptical of the classifiers. "Med" was the most common classification, although when I was classified as a Med -- even with a pic of me making me out as swarthy -- classifiers tended to see other elements. Even those who classified me as a Med put me in the East rather than in the West. By the way, I do not have a hook-nose, so I honestly have no idea where the Armenoid and Dinarid come from.
I also want to add that I am happy as a Med, just a bit skeptical about the whole "Nordish" concept because I always thought of myself as a typical Med.
The comments:
I. Dalonord:
Eastern Med generally with perhaps a Dinaric/Armenoid cast.
II. AWAR:
He looks like a cross between a Greek and a Hungarian.
III. Vojvoda:
I see strong CroMagnid features, wide and high forehead, protruding bi-gonials.
IV. Stríbog:
Predominantly Dinaric IMO.
V. Louky:
With your broad and long face, long and thin nose, "pointed chin," brunette tone, and presumably at least moderately tall stature, I'd agree with the basic classification of Dinarid. However, you are not a typical example. For instance, the shape of your ears is not typical of Dinarids and I would be surprised to see from a side-angled picture that you could be described as "high headed." So, I'd say you were principally Dinarid with UP admixture, probably either Alpinid or Faelid.
=-=-=-=-=
VI. Nordishracedude:
A) I think you might be Alpine - Or using the Nordish concept - Alpish.
After calling me Alpine, he asserted after I divulged my identity:
B) I mean he is a shining example: Why can't Europids who are outside Nordish range just be happy being what they are - I'm central Nordish and I'm so from birth, not from some social ability or non-physical factors.
VII. Nordsforever:
A) You look to be of a mostly Mediterranean-Alpine mix: short, rounded jaw; brunette pigmentation with blackish curley hair - are the most notable.
B) -ish would be partial, but still predominant. He may be slightly more Med than Alpine.
C) His forehead is high, and may have influence from Brünn or Slavic ancestry, but everything else is non-Nordish. Don't be confused by some Gaels looking similar to him - as there have been old migrations from Mediterranean and Dinaric races into Ireland and Britain. Every individual in Ireland and Britain is not Nordish. His face/jaw is really more Alpinish, IMO. Brünns are more rugged (John Wayne). He has a smooth facial structure. Overall, Medish or peripheral Med, rather than the other way around.
D) I would say a better comparison with the man of the moment is the Paleo-Atlantid, which is basically Med altered by some British Nordish ancestry (Brünn, Keltic Nordic or Anglo-Saxon). Now when does the Nordish periphery cline more into a Medish periphery? IMO, I think Zeta-Jones is more on the Medish side. I guess it's up to the individual, or someone needs to come up with a reasonable way to define boundaries in a perceivable and consistent way. Certainly it must be functional in the sense of a peripheral subject being 'more conducive to reproducing Central types'. If all Nords end up being peripheral Nords, we're dead. The concept of a periphery is only in the case of the subjects being able to be reabsorbed and positive to maintaining the Central Nords. Obviously a peripheral Nordish Negro is unacceptable, and a Nordish Asian, and in most cases a Nordish Semite. Many of these Med/Alpine-Nord peripheral types may not be harmful, especially in the case of the Atlanto's, as SNPA defines, but the Paleo's are another thing, IMO.
After I divulged my identity:
E) Just a few points: To be more clear, I meant you were predominantly Mediterranean with the remaining being Alpine, and possibly some Brünn or eastern Nordish peripheral type because of your tall forehead and longer nose. Although tall foreheads can sometimes be purely Alpine, and the longer nose could also be from an eastern Mediterranean source. So I would guess at your ancestry from looking at your picture you gave it down like this: Mediterranean 60%, Alpine 30%, Other 10%. So, it is true then, at least from an ethnic point of view, you are Mediterranean. Your phenotype doesn't differ too much from that type. Mr. Saxony also said you were Brünn, which is technically not Nordic, although many seem to group people of UP ancestry into that category.
F) I said your hair looked curly (at the top), which it did. But since you say this is a temporary look via gel, then so be it. Some people that are a clinal range of straight and curly haired inheritance will often have a curl at the end, rather than a tight curl all the way through. This is what it looked like to me. Your eyes also looked brownish, perhaps a hazel then? They didn't look purely of a light green or light variety. This is the case with many sub-racial mixes, they have a mixed brown, light-eyed type. Of course, as I've said before, including 2 or more pics of someone to be analyzed is best. Otherwise we don't catch all the nuances.
G) I don't recall saying you were Nordic, but rather may have some Nordish ancestry via Brünn or a peripheral Slavic type. Why should you take offense at me using the word swarthy? It's an accurate description. Just as calling Nords fair-skinned, or light-skinned. Unless for some reason everyone thinks that Mediterranean pigmentation is ugly?
VIII. Michaelsson51:
A) I see a lot of Mediterranean.
After I divulged my identity:
B) I knew you were a Med. LOL!
IX. Son_of_saxony:
A) There will probably be few that agree with me, but I think he may have quite a bit of Brünn and lite on the Med.
After I divulged my identity:
B) You make it sound as if I placed you or a person with your racial 'features' goosestepping it high and mighty with the SS in Nürnberg, 1934. Please know that NO offense is intended by that last statement. If I thought you were mainly 'Nordic' I would have stated as such. My meaning here is not to be a 'S.O.B.', but rather to state that 'Nordic' and 'Nordish' are not one and the same. 'Brünn' is of Upper Palaeolithic stock... I completely place you in a 'Nordish classification' without question, however, as far as 'Nordic' is involved with your make up it is twice removed. It is all splitting hairs, but I feel that Nordsforever hit the nail right on the head with 'Paleo-Atlantid', which has at least one leg of its roots in 'Brünn'. In 20/20 hindsight I should have leaned on the 'Meds' side more; but I have seen in the past just how little 'blood' is needed to 'warm' the pigmentation of the skin...blah, blah, blah... you get the idea. Like most Men of my Ilk, (lol), I like to be represented by my own words and not by a slightly wrong varied interpretation of them. You seem to be a 'Right Man'... no chips on either of our shoulders so let's be through with it Sir :^) Yours Sincerely, Son of Saxony
C) I think you did the right thing by not stating any information to sway our judgement on how we see it (or perhaps I should say you). I must say I had some preconceived notions because of a good friend I had years ago who was from Northern Ireland. This guy could easily have been your stunt double or vice versa; minus a few degrees of pigmentation and his eyes are blue. I always try to start with the skull and stay with the skull first and foremost.
