Scientology?

[jrj26]

Wow, I'm actually surprised that Scientology hasn't been mentioned. I'm not a Scientologist, but I find it a little interesting(but then, I'm basically interested in all religions, philosophies, etc., probably tying into my interest in psych and anthropology).

www.scientology.org/

Anyway, are there any Scientologists on Dodona? Anyone looking into it? I have mixed views on Scientology. It seems to be a mix of psychology and pseudo-religion, more psychology than anything. There views on the reactive mind and emotion are interesting. The goal is to become Clear, where you no longer have your reactive mind. Then after that the goal is to become an Operating Thetan, literally "operating as a spirit/thetan". Now, this all seems like a load of BS sometimes, but other times it seems no different from what I learned/learn as a Catholic(in terms of rationality).

Many regard the Church of Scientology as a cult, and it's even banned/despised by the government of various countries. Some believe that it's basically a corporation that takes money from the members, and it's focus is on making money. I'm not surprised by this. I visited the Center in NYC, and it was a great experience, however I did notice how persistent they were. I overheard one member telling an elderly couple to participate in some course or tech, and how it was "only" $50(me being the "poor college student", I laughed quietly). When I went inside, I was immediately greated, and said I was just looking around. However, the woman asked me some questions, tried to get me to take a personality test, etc. I did like the "exhibits" around the lower level, describing Scientology and Dianetics,along with video clip descriptions.

So, I think that Scientology is mostly a misunderstood "religion", especially because of its age. However, there are many practices that bother me, especially the cost of the various techniques, courses, levels, etc. Sure it starts off "cheap", but you then start to pay thousands of dollars once you get in the Operating Thetan level. Sure, various religions charge a fee for certain services, but I've never seen these prices before.

Any thoughts on Scientology?

[murphee]

My opinion: It's a scam...and nutty to boot. $$$$$

[Mike the Jedi]

Hey, if you think there is a possibility your body is possessed by demonic alien spirits that make your life miserable, then scientology is for you.

But me, I think it's all about the money, as Murphee just said.

[Rockstar135]

Scientology has really come to the forefront as it has been popularized by major celebs (most notably Tom Cruise). Ironically, it has been Cruise's crusade that has turned me off from scientology.

The idea that he is propagating (and scientology advocates) is downright dangerous: that major mental illness can be managed by diet and exersize as opposed to psychopharmaceuticals and psychotherapy. I don't know if Tom has had any major contact with someone suffering from severe mental illness, but tell someone who is so depressed they are suffering from major catatonia (unable to move and stiffly rigid) or someone who thinks people on their television are talking directly to them to alter their diet and see what happens. These drugs, which he is so ardently against, have an important role in managing people's illness and helping them to function in society because they are now able to maintain their jobs and raise their kids.

And his arrogance astounds me. Here is someone who didn't even graduate high school thinking that he has some particular insight to the history of psychiatry that no one else seems to have. He apparently thought nothing of calling a long-time friend of his (Brooke Shields) "irresponsible" for publishing her account of post-partum depression in which antidepressants lifted her out of a state so severe she couldn't even look at or touch her own child.

He isn't entirely wrong, I do agree that perhaps Ritalin is overprescribed and that there are not enough studies that demonstrate the efficacy of antidepressant use in children (particularly that of SSRIs). However, the blanket statements that he is making are grossly irresponsible and I worry converts to scientology are being hugely misinformed.

[jrj26]

haha yeah I read about how, when you get to the higher levels, they tell you the story about how there was some ancient cosmic battle millions of years ago , and someone named Xenu killed millions of aliens with hydrogen bombs(...), and that the thetans or spirits of these beings are "fused" to our own spirits. So, when you become "clear", you're not done yet. You still have to "clear" all of the other thetans that you have, and that's even MORE money. It's really all for the money, at least in the Church of Scientology. There are non CofS Scientologists that get the same services for 80% less.

I do find it all fascinating, but then, what do we expect when a science fiction author starts a religion?

[Rockstar135]

jrj26 said:

I do find it all fascinating, but then, what do we expect when a science fiction author starts a religion?

Ha....so true...

[Educate Me]

I think it is 100% nutty and false


But I kinda agree with Tom on drugs for mental problems

I think they are a stupid novelty, overprescribed, and used by first world people to justify immature aspects of their personality.

[Rockstar135]

I agreed that certain drugs are overprescribed, but this phenomena is not nearly so serious as to "throw the baby out with the bathwater"...Do you agree with Tom that mental distrurbances such as bipolar, major depression, and schizophrenia can be cured by exercise and diet?

[Rockstar135]

Also, are you anti-psychotherapy?

[Educate Me]

Of course not, I just think he did have a point.

Nowadays you see mothers who have spoiled kids, and say, My Johny, it is not his fault! poor kiddie has chemical unbalance or some disorder shit, and they put the kid on drugs.

That is what bothers me, and I think there are more of this cases than people with serious mentall illnesses that do require drug treatment.

More discipline and less pills I say.

[jrj26]

rockstar135 said:

Scientology has really come to the forefront as it has been popularized by major celebs (most notably Tom Cruise). Ironically, it has been Cruise's crusade that has turned me off from scientology.

The idea that he is propagating (and scientology advocates) is downright dangerous: that major mental illness can be managed by diet and exersize as opposed to psychopharmaceuticals and psychotherapy. I don't know if Tom has had any major contact with someone suffering from severe mental illness, but tell someone who is so depressed they are suffering from major catatonia (unable to move and stiffly rigid) or someone who thinks people on their television are talking directly to them to alter their diet and see what happens. These drugs, which he is so ardently against, have an important role in managing people's illness and helping them to function in society because they are now able to maintain their jobs and raise their kids.

And his arrogance astounds me. Here is someone who didn't even graduate high school thinking that he has some particular insight to the history of psychiatry that no one else seems to have. He apparently thought nothing of calling a long-time friend of his (Brooke Shields) "irresponsible" for publishing her account of post-partum depression in which antidepressants lifted her out of a state so severe she couldn't even look at or touch her own child.

He isn't entirely wrong, I do agree that perhaps Ritalin is overprescribed and that there are not enough studies that demonstrate the efficacy of antidepressant use in children (particularly that of SSRIs). However, the blanket statements that he is making are grossly irresponsible and I worry converts to scientology are being hugely misinformed.

oh yes I agree. Their position on psychotherapy, psychiatry, etc. is similar to the Jehovah's Witnesses position on transfusions. Proven medical techniques are being denounced on "religious"/misinterpretation grounds. Scientology's "Purification" program, which is supposed to rid the body of toxins, diseases, etc. caused by drugs, is ridiculously simple. Basically, you run a certain distance, sit in a sauna, take vitamins, etc., sleep, and this will rid your body of the toxins. As a health studies/int'l health major, I feel that this is ridiculous. If it was so simple to rid the body of toxins, qualified physicians would have been implementing this program from the beginning. While I do think that their "purification program" has some merit(it's obviously good to exercise and take vitamins/have a healthy diet), I don't think that it, in and of itself, can rid the body of all toxins, diseases, etc.

Whenever I hear Tom Cruise speak, I feel smarter(is that wrong of me,lol). How old is he? In his 40s? And he talks like a teenager. Scientology is especially being popularized by celebrities(Travolta, Cruise, Issac Hayes,etc), and they target celebrities with their Celebrity Centers. Maybe it's because they'll buy more services...

Anyway, I guess I'm interested in it from an academic perspective, though I do find the reactive mind belief interesting.

[murphee]

Celebrities are courted and groomed as they are valuable cash cows.

[Rockstar135]

jrj26 said:

Whenever I hear Tom Cruise speak, I feel smarter(is that wrong of me,lol). How old is he? In his 40s? And he talks like a teenager. Scientology is especially being popularized by celebrities(Travolta, Cruise, Issac Hayes,etc), and they target celebrities with their Celebrity Centers. Maybe it's because they'll buy more services...

Anyway, I guess I'm interested in it from an academic perspective, though I do find the reactive mind belief interesting.

That's the danger here. The general public (particularly youth) might not care if Tom Cruise isn't an verifiable expert on the subject. He wields huge influence, and he knows it. What if a teenage girl on antidepressants to combat suicidal thoughts sees him on television and decides to stop taking her medication. There are serious implications here.

I also share your academic interest in scientology (as I am interested in religion in general)...Not too long ago, I was browsing the same website.

[Crimson Guard]

Scientology? Scientfiction is more like it!

[murphee]

I agree that medication is over-prescribed and that many ailments including mental disturbances can be prevented or cured by the practice of a balanced life (diet, exercise, rest, spirituality). I also think that quite a bit of psychiatry is hogwash ie: Freud.
But, I don't think Scientology is 'the answer.' Tom Cruise is acting like an idiot. ;D