Catholicism is a cult, not real Christianity

[topdog]

The more I read the Bible and observe the practices of Catholics, it is apparent to me that a significant amount of what they practice is non-scriptural. There is very little continuity between Catholicism and the tachings of the early church as written in the Bible. For example, purgatory, where is that found in the Bible? Praying to saints and even assigning 'patron' saints, where is it found in the Bible?

[mike2]

I'm not Protestant. I'm also not Catholic. And I'm not anti-Catholic. I like Catholicism because it is the foundation of the Christian church and we owe much to the institution. But Catholicism means universal, and I have to agree I see nothing universally Christian about the cult of Mary, praying to saints, purgatory, having to ask priests for forgiveness, and the concept of an infallible spiritual leader. While I know these things are practiced with the best intentions, we all know the road to disaster is paved with good intentions.

[Trog]

topdog said:

The more I read the Bible and observe the practices of Catholics, it is apparent to me that a significant amount of what they practice is non-scriptural. There is very little continuity between Catholicism and the tachings of the early church as written in the Bible. For example, purgatory, where is that found in the Bible? Praying to saints and even assigning 'patron' saints, where is it found in the Bible?

Well, St Augustine is considered by many to be the true founder of Catholicism and it's dogma, and he was a Roman/Berber from Numidia/Carthage. Many learned men study Catholicism for years. How educated to you think those cardinals are? They speak several languages, they study theology for years and then remain celibate for their entire lives. Don't you think those men and the many hundreds before them are in a far better position to judge Catholicism than you?

As for the references in the Bible - even Jews prayed for the souls of the dead in the Old Testament. Also, if you're Christian Bass, I'll assume you're some kind of Protestant, most likely Baptist, which is a spin-off and in that sense no different from Mormons, Jehovahs, Puritans etc etc.

[mike2]

Well, the whole reason Protestantism exists is because of lack of faith in the validity of many Catholic practices and of course corruption and the need for religious freedom. But even Protestant traditions aren't much better than the Catholic ones they split away from in my opinion, even if they are more Bible-based. It's all religion anyway you slice it. You can have all the religion you want, but it's the faith that matters in the end. Sitting in a pew isn't going to save you anymore than all the penances and bargaining in the world. It's faith in the promise of Christ. That's what I believe. It's made clear through scripture that God does not want our burnt offerings or sacrifices, but our love. And that's a pretty awesome god.

[Trog]

mike2 said:

Well, the whole reason Protestantism exists is because of lack of faith in the validity of many Catholic practices and of course corruption and the need for religious freedom. But even Protestant traditions aren't much better than the Catholic ones they split away from in my opinion, even if they are more Bible-based. It's all religion anyway you slice it. You can have all the religion you want, but it's the faith that matters in the end. Sitting in a pew isn't going to save you anymore than all the penances and bargaining in the world. It's faith in the promise of Christ. That's what I believe. It's made clear through scripture that God does not want our burnt offerings or sacrifices, but our love. And that's a pretty awesome god.

Yes, faith without works is dead. There's is also the reference to the lukewarm believer, it is better to be a complete atheist rather than someone wishy-washy about faith. It's refreshing to see someone like you so full of zest in their faith. You're right, you don't need to be sitting in a pew -someone like me however does need this. I would lose my faith if I didn't practice it in the ways I know how. Plus there's also the Catholic fear of losing one's soul.

[iberomaurusian]

Whole christianity is a cult, a man-invention. I live every day without it, and I'm happy ... Free yourselves!.

[iberomaurusian]

Never thought to all those no-christians who live and die without knowing a shit about your Jesus!?. Arent they his creatures as well!? Where is he for them, for the poor ones, the ill ones, ...I have seen miseries, you didnt!

My advice: Get ride of that illusion!

[ranmin]

Catholicism could have incorporated lots of elements of Graeco-Roman mysticism. That's might be why some towns in the Mediterranean have "patron saints", just like each Greek town had a protective deity or something like that.

Anyways, where-ever Christianity went, it often mixed with local customs, and fused into secular life. For example, the "Christmas tree" supposedly had something to do with Germanic(?) pagan customs.

In non-European countries such as Korea, Catholicism even became somewhat shamanistic and cult-like than it was in the West.

[Trog]

ranmin said:

Catholicism could have incorporated lots of elements of Graeco-Roman mysticism. That's might be why some towns in the Mediterranean have "patron saints", just like each Greek town had a protective deity or something like that.

Anyways, where-ever Christianity went, it often mixed with local customs, and fused into secular life. For example, the "Christmas tree" supposedly had something to do with Germanic(?) pagan customs.

In non-European countries such as Korea, Catholicism even became somewhat shamanistic and cult-like than it was in the West.

Yes, I think you're right, Catholicism has absorbed native elements, though the central dogma has remained more or less the same. I think that's why Popes take such a hardline on ethics and basically refuse to accept modernisation and "progression" - Catholicism is supposed to be tailored to suit any cultural or ethnic group, so it's harder to try and change it to suit one group whilst trying to reach a compromise with others.

In ancient times, St Columba, Celtic monk clashed with St Augustine because St Augustine, who was the authoritative figure, did not like the Celtic/Pagan elements that the Celtic monks allowed, so St Columba and Augustine 'fell out'.

My family have inherited Irish Catholicism and that has rituals not practiced everywhere else. An example is that of a funeral. It is common here to have the remains in an open casket in the family home for three days to allow mourners to visit and pray. There's even food and drink given out whilst people will go into the bedroom and pay their last respects. During those three days, the priest comes round and conducts the Rosary for the deceased. Some people find this bizarre, even eerie, whereas it's quite a natural part of the grieving process here. However, during Pope John Paul's funeral mass, the clapping seemed quite odd.

Overall though, when I've attended Mass in another country, it's been the exact same all the time. Only local customaries make the difference. Also, in a protestant country, religious processions like those in Southern Europe and Ireland, are prohibited as they would provoke trouble. In Ireland, holy statues exist on the streets very much the same as heroic monuments, but if that was done here, it would be wrecked. SO we have our own private places where even Muslims and people from all over the world come to...........

www.carfin.org.uk/grottotour.htm

[ranmin]

xenophobic said:

ranmin said:

Catholicism could have incorporated lots of elements of Graeco-Roman mysticism. That's might be why some towns in the Mediterranean have "patron saints", just like each Greek town had a protective deity or something like that.

Anyways, where-ever Christianity went, it often mixed with local customs, and fused into secular life. For example, the "Christmas tree" supposedly had something to do with Germanic(?) pagan customs.

In non-European countries such as Korea, Catholicism even became somewhat shamanistic and cult-like than it was in the West.

Yes, I think you're right, Catholicism has absorbed native elements, though the central dogma has remained more or less the same. I think that's why Popes take such a hardline on ethics and basically refuse to accept modernisation and "progression" - Catholicism is supposed to be tailored to suit any cultural or ethnic group, so it's harder to try and change it to suit one group whilst trying to reach a compromise with others.

In ancient times, St Columba, Celtic monk clashed with St Augustine because St Augustine, who was the authoritative figure, did not like the Celtic/Pagan elements that the Celtic monks allowed, so St Columba and Augustine 'fell out'.

My family have inherited Irish Catholicism and that has rituals not practiced everywhere else. An example is that of a funeral. It is common here to have the remains in an open casket in the family home for three days to allow mourners to visit and pray. There's even food and drink given out whilst people will go into the bedroom and pay their last respects. During those three days, the priest comes round and conducts the Rosary for the deceased. Some people find this bizarre, even eerie, whereas it's quite a natural part of the grieving process here. However, during Pope John Paul's funeral mass, the clapping seemed quite odd.

Overall though, when I've attended Mass in another country, it's been the exact same all the time. Only local customaries make the difference. Also, in a protestant country, religious processions like those in Southern Europe and Ireland, are prohibited as they would provoke trouble. In Ireland, holy statues exist on the streets very much the same as heroic monuments, but if that was done here, it would be wrecked. SO we have our own private places where even Muslims and people from all over the world come to...........

www.carfin.org.uk/grottotour.htm

The liturgy is pretty much the same for all the Catholic world isn't it?

I'd venture to put out here a view of religion as a process. Religions often conform to the societies in which they live, even in things that seem superficial. For example, the Muslims of the Great Mosque of Xi'an, China built that structure in the style similar to a Buddhist temple, not the usual domed style, and Quranic verses are present as decoration in the Chinese language. I suppose even the ideas they preach there are somewhat "Orientalised", but I don't know for sure.

[Educate Me]

We ve got the power



And the best pointed hats

[mike2]

ienjoylurking said:

We ve got the power



And the best pointed hats

lol...

[Educate Me]

iberomaurusian said:

Never thought to all those no-christians who live and die without knowing a shit about your Jesus!?. Arent they his creatures as well!? Where is he for them, for the poor ones, the ill ones, ...I have seen miseries, you didnt!

My advice: Get ride of that illusion!

We catholics have a concept that no other christians have, some of them even think it is an heretic concept, it is called "invincible ignorance" which means that even if you are not a catholic as long as you are "invincibly ignorant" , which would be for example the case of an amerindian who was born 1000 years before Jesus, you can be saved as long as you follow natural law as well as you can with the knowledge you have.

What do you mean with where is he for the poor, for the ill ones?

The majority of catholics live in third world countries, I live in a third world country too, the church has seen miseries, and the catholic church does a lot of things for the poor people in third world countries, no one can deny that.

[Educate Me]

Actually the amerind was a bad example, because jesus descended to hell to preach the souls there, lets say an amerind who was born 100 years after jesus.

[topdog]

xenophobic said:

topdog said:

The more I read the Bible and observe the practices of Catholics, it is apparent to me that a significant amount of what they practice is non-scriptural. There is very little continuity between Catholicism and the tachings of the early church as written in the Bible. For example, purgatory, where is that found in the Bible? Praying to saints and even assigning 'patron' saints, where is it found in the Bible?

Well, St Augustine is considered by many to be the true founder of Catholicism and it's dogma, and he was a Roman/Berber from Numidia/Carthage. Many learned men study Catholicism for years. How educated to you think those cardinals are? They speak several languages, they study theology for years and then remain celibate for their entire lives. Don't you think those men and the many hundreds before them are in a far better position to judge Catholicism than you?

I'm talking about the scriptural aspect not the works and teachings on men. Catholicism has little to do with the Bible and the bible is the only authority.

As for the references in the Bible - even Jews prayed for the souls of the dead in the Old Testament.

Jews didn't pray to patron saints or dead men should I say, they prayed to God.