? about genetics, evolution, and Genesis

[geo]

When we like the assumptions of what the bible actually says, it's an 'allegory'. When we don't, its a 'misrepresentation' and 'blasphemy'.


If all the fuss is about 'good' and 'evil', then we must start the discussion by defining the terms. What is 'good' and what is 'evil'. Let molika, who seemingly uses those terms more, begin first.

[molika]

Vela, We are at an impasse. Yes, Jesus gave us the two most important commandments, love the Lord God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. If you follow these commands you automatically follow the 10 commandments. If you love God you put no one or no thing before Him, you do not make idols, or use His name in vain and you remember Him always. If you love your neighbor as yourself you automatically keep from lying, stealing, coveting, adultery, murdering and you obey your parents out of respect. Jesus also said if you have hate in your heart you have committed murder and if you look upon someone with lust you have already committed adultery. This is not a philosophy of let us do whatever we want because no one should judge us.

Yes with Jesus we have no condemnation. Yes with Jesus we should not judge one another, this is reserved only for God. But without Jesus we are under the law and God judges us. To someone who does not believe in Jesus or God you cannot say don’t worry, do whatever you like. This is not love! Without Christ we are under the law of death and if we break any of the commandments we are destined for an eternal hell. This was/is not my idea, nor are the commandments my authorship, nor is this my judgment. The author of the commandments is a Holy God that is so absolutely good that we cannot even fathom His goodness. This is not my opinion, it is written in the Bible. This is God's measuring stick. I cannot even come close to meeting God’s expectations. This is why I understand I need Jesus. Without my Savior Yeshua I cannot meet the absolute Holy standard my Father in Heaven has set as an example for me. I am guilty.

What if I only talked about the love and peace of God, would anyone understand why they need Him? If I said oh we are all ‘good’ because ‘good’ is a relative term, specific to each person, so do whatever you like, would this be fair? In this case why would I need God, why would I need Jesus? I would be content and complacent in my own goodness.

I may even believe that God/Jesus is a nice idea for a while. What happens that first time something goes wrong in my life? Who would I blame? God of course. When my life falls apart I blame the God of ‘goodness’ because that title implies my life should be good, all the time, because God is love right?

When you teach people God’s commandments, when they see what God’s standard of goodness is they will not be happy with you! You won’t make many friends in this and you will be labeled ‘judgmental’. But this is the ultimate display of love. ‘Humiliating’ yourself in man’s eyes to reach the unreachable. It is like the saying when you feed a man you keep him from hunger for one day, but when you teach him to fish he will never be hungry again. If you give someone a good piece of advice, you may give him great wisdom for one particular event or time in his life, but when you show a man why he needs Christ you give him the gift of eternal salvation. This is the believer’s goal.

It is my duty to let nonbelievers know this (see the quotes below), out of love for them and because Jesus tells me I must. It is not God’s will that anyone perish (John 3:16).

I wouldn’t want anyone to find out the hard way that yes there is a God and it’s too late for them. Wouldn’t you rather I bother a few people with ‘dogma’, which is ultimately their choice to accept or to reject, than to keep silent? What harm does it do if I am ultimately wrong? Nothing, we all die and c'est la vie. But what if I am telling you the truth?

Acts 1:8 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

Matthew 5:13-15 13"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men. 14"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house

2 Corinthians 5:20 20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.

Romans 10:14 14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?

Ephesians 4:1111It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers,

2 Timothy 4:5 5But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

Matthew 4:19 19"Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men."

Matthew 9:38 38Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field."

1 Thessalonians 3:2 2We sent Timothy, who is our brother and God's fellow workerin spreading the gospel of Christ, to strengthen and encourage you in your faith,

Romans 15:16 16to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

Colossians 1:23 23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

Luke 1:2 2just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.

2 Corinthians 3:6 6He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

2 Corinthians 4:5 5For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake.

1 Timothy 2:7 7And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

1 Peter 4:10 10Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others, faithfully administering God's grace in its various forms.

Psalm 126:6 6 He who goes out weeping,
carrying seed to sow,
will return with songs of joy,
carrying sheaves with him.

Mark 4:3-20 3"Listen! A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants, so that they did not bear grain. 8Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up, grew and produced a crop, multiplying thirty, sixty, or even a hundred times." 9Then Jesus said, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." 10When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12so that,
" 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'" 13Then Jesus said to them, "Don't you understand this parable? How then will you understand any parable? 14The farmer sows the word. 15Some people are like seed along the path, where the word is sown. As soon as they hear it, Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them. 16Others, like seed sown on rocky places, hear the word and at once receive it with joy. 17But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 18Still others, like seed sown among thorns, hear the word; 19but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful. 20Others, like seed sown on good soil, hear the word, accept it, and produce a crop—thirty, sixty or even a hundred times what was sown."

Philippians 1:7 7It is right for me to feel this way about all of you, since I have you in my heart; for whether I am in chains or defending and confirming the gospel, all of you share in God's grace with me.

Philippians 3:17 17Join with others in following my example, brothers, and take note of those who live according to the pattern we gave you.

Acts 2:38-39 38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."

[vela]

Good enough, Molika.
He that has ears, let him hear!

[merlin]

Bravo, Vela and Molika,

Vela- that's exactly right. I congratulate you on your insight.

Molika- I have never met anyone I believed God was speaking through more than you. Thank you! Your above statement sums up believers' difficult position as they seek to witness the Gospel to a hostile world.

The spirit of God is love, peace, joy, and spiritual prosperity. Believers are in the position of a town crier standing at the gate of the straight and narrow, shouting, "The Lord says, 'This is the way." There is another path that looks enticing, prideful, adult, intelligent, and cool. Most folks don't hear the town crier. They are like the person who insists "I'd rather do it myself."

These people don't consider the destination of the two paths- one leads to love, peace, joy, and the spiritual ecstasy of being part of God's family. Real God! The Heavenly Father who LOVES you. The other path is an escalator conveying you straight to the mouth of a volcano and dumping you inside it, where the scorching flames and steaming molten lava burn.


Vela and others, can you blame Molika for hoping to get your attention? As she wrote, she hopes and prays you have ears to hear. As do I.

May God bless you and keep you,

Merlin

[geo]

Well, I myself find the original myth by Xenophon much more 'modern' and 'didactical' than the version presented above, cutted-down to fit christian ethics.

"When Heracles was emerging from boyhood into the bloom of youth, having reached that season in which the young man, now standing upon the verge of independence, shows plainly whether he will enter upon the path of virtue or of vice, he went forth into a quiet place, and sat debating with himself which of those two paths he should pursue; and as he there sat musing, there appeared to him two women of great stature which drew nigh to him. The one was fair to look upon, frank and free by gift of nature, her limbs adorned with purity and her eyes with bashfulness; sobriety set the rhythm of her gait, and she was clad in white apparel. The other was of a different type; the fleshy softness of her limbs betrayed her nurture, while the complexion of her skin was embellished that she might appear whiter and rosier than she really was, and her figure that she might seem taller than nature made her; she stared with wide-open eyes, and the raiment wherewith she was clad served but to reveal the ripeness of her bloom. With frequent glances she surveyed her person, or looked to see if others noticed her; while ever and anon she fixed her gaze upon the shadow of herself intently.

"Now when these two had drawn near to Heracles, she who was first named advanced at an even pace towards him, but the other, in her eagerness to outstrip her, ran forward to the youth, exclaiming, 'I see you, Heracles, in doubt and difficulty what path of life to choose; make me your friend, and I will lead you to the pleasantest road and easiest. This I promise you: you shall taste all of life's sweets and escape all bitters. In the first place, you shall not trouble your brain with war or business; other topics shall engage your mind; your only speculation, what meat or drink you shall find agreeable to your palate; what delight of ear or eye; what pleasure of smell or touch; what darling lover's intercourse shall most enrapture you; how you shall pillow your limbs in softest slumber; how cull each individual pleasure without alloy of pain; and if ever the suspicion steal upon you that the stream of joys will one day dwindle, trust me I will not lead you where you shall replenish the store by toil of body and trouble of soul. No! others shall labour, but you shall reap the fruit of their labours; you shall withhold your hand from nought which shall bring you gain. For to all my followers I give authority and power to help themselves freely from every side.'

"Heracles hearing these words made answer: 'What, O lady, is the name you bear?' To which she: 'Know that my friends call be Happiness, but they that hate me have their own nicknames for me, Vice and Naughtiness.'

"But just then the other of those fair women approached and spoke: 'Heracles, I too am come to you, seeing that your parents are well known to me, and in your nurture I have gauged your nature; wherefore I entertain good hope that if you choose the path which leads to me, you shall greatly bestir yourself to be the doer of many a doughty deed of noble emprise; and that I too shall be held in even higher honour for your sake, lit with the lustre shed by valorous deeds. I will not cheat you with preludings of pleasure, but I will relate to you the things that are according to the ordinances of the gods in very truth. Know then that among things that are lovely and of good report, not one have the gods bestowed upon mortal men apart from toil and pains. Would you obtain the favour of the gods, then must you pay these same gods service; would you be loved by your friends, you must benefit these friends; do you desire to be honoured by the state, you must give the state your aid; do you claim admiration for your virtue from all Hellas, you must strive to do some good to Hellas; do you wish earth to yield her fruits to you abundantly, to earth must you pay your court; do you seek to amass riches from your flocks and herds, on them must you bestow your labour; or is it your ambition to be potent as a warrior, able to save your friends and to subdue your foes, then must you learn the arts of war from those who have the knowledge, and practise their application in the field when learned; or would you e'en be powerful of limb and body, then must you habituate limbs and body to obey the mind, and exercise yourself with toil and sweat.'

I still wonder - who's misrepresenting whom....

[molika]

Thank you for the confirmation Merlin.

(Numbers 6:24-26)
Y’vare-ch’cha ADONAI v’yish’m’recha
Ya-er ADONAI panav eleicha viychuneka
Yisa ADONAI panav eleicha
v’yasem l’cha shalom

The LORD bless you and keep you.
The LORD make His face shine upon you and be gracious to you.
The LORD lift up His countenance upon you and give you peace.

[geo]

Aaaaameeenn