"Psychology, Racism & Fascism"

[Silveira]

The following on-line book examines the racial theories of the nazis and post-war extreme-right from a left wing anti-racist perspective.

www.ferris.edu/isar/archives/billig/homepage.htm

[Silveira]

Cover of pro-Nordic journal from the 1950s, notice how certain parts of Europe are cut out from the map:

[Crimson Guard]

One thing to remember is that the real Nazi's and Fascist never embraced "Nordism".In fact they did the complete opposite.

nordist doctrine beleives and enforces seperation.This was something the Nazi's espeacially where dead set against,their goal was to destroy class barriers and unite all the german people,that was Hitler's plan and goal,which he did do.Later on it became the goal of a United Europe,soemthing that hasnt been done since the Roman Empire.



The Nazi's had the 1st multiculteral army:

The Waffen SS recruited:

Italians,Chinese/Japanese,French,Indians,Arabians,Belgiums,Russians,Spanish,Swedish,Norwegians,Estonians and others.

[SwordandCompass]

CrimsonGuard said:

One thing to remember is that the real Nazi's and Fascist never embraced "Nordism".In fact they did the complete opposite.

nordist doctrine beleives and enforces seperation.This was something the Nazi's espeacially where dead set against,their goal was to destroy class barriers and unite all the german people,that was Hitler's plan and goal,which he did do.Later on it became the goal of a United Europe,soemthing that hasnt been done since the Roman Empire.



The Nazi's had the 1st multiculteral army:

The Waffen SS recruited:

Italians,Chinese/Japanese,French,Indians,Arabians,Belgiums,Russians,Spanish,Swedish,Norwegians,Estonians and others.

The nazis and the ss where Nordicists! the waffen ss only recruited because they where losing the war.

[Crimson Guard]

<<The nazis and the ss where Nordicists! the waffen ss only recruited because they where losing the war>>


Nope not true! Even so it doesnt change the fact the Nazi's where recruiting un-aryan/un-nordic volunteers to serve in their armies and in be apart of their Government,and the fact that these free voluneers where volunteer speak volumes.

Look at the Nazi's allies during WW2 Italy,Spain,Japan,Romania,Hungary,Croatia,Albanian moslems,Palestine and few others.Nothing Nordic about them at all.The Nazi where not Nordists,far from it.

what your really doing is your beleiving in common popular post war misconception and lies.

The ideas of Guenther became somewhat popular after Hitler came to power,in small group of people and a few nazi officials,and they where never officially endorced by the Nazi Party nor by Adolf Hitler or used.

The only one to really toy with the idea was Himmler,but his racial ideas where a complete failure.

Only at the very early stages when the SS where Hitler's small bodyguard unit ,where the SS recruits selected for their extremly strict height and racial makeup(Blue yes and Blond Hair. And they had to trace their german ancestry back a 100 year or more.But recruitment was extremly low,and later Hitler ordered himmler to disregard the process.

here's link and excerpt:

www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n5p34_Weber.html



<Hitler never supported notions of breeding a homogenous blond "hyper-Aryan" race. Accepting the reality that the German population consisted of several distinct sub-racial groups, he stressed the German people's national and social unity. A certain degree of racial variety was desirable, he thought, and too much racial blending or homogeneity could be harmful because it would homogenize and thus eliminate superior as well as inferior genetic traits.

Hitler believed that "both conservative prudery and radical eroticism" harmed society, and he opposed birth control because it tended to lower the genetic quality of the society that practices it.>

Hitler never once used the term Nordic in any of his speaches or writings ,he used the term "Aryan".

I studied Hitler and Nazi's for long time,and i can tell you,these wannabe-neo-Nazi's are nothing more than corrupted version using the Nazi image and corrupting it with their own agenda.

Today you have pagan-NeoNazi's who see themeselves as the superior anti-Christian/ anti Jew haters.Meanwhile Hitler was a Roman Catholic and at one time thought of becoming a monk.When in Power he merged State and Church,he was very much anti-pagan and very much Pro-Catholic.

Neo-Nazi Nordic type who are another group of crackpots who are not nor do not understand what true nazi where about or National Socialism/Fascism.




Most if not all the German nazi's and aswel as German people where obviously unNordic in characteristics as mentioned.

If you also read Mein Kampf Hitler believed strongly in the Union of Germany,Italy and Britain and saw these 3 countries as the most powerful European countries trhoughout history ,and that they should be united in union .

Also in one of Hitler's speaches in prasied the Greek hellenistic Spirit and spoke very highly of the greeks during their defence of their country.So he did respect them.Their was never any hint of nordic supreamacy about Hitler or the Nazi regime.

[izabet]

Hitler wanted a united Europe, though I'm not sure how he defined Europe. I would assume it included the southern countries too. I've only ever heard of his dislike to Jews and Slavs.

[SwordandCompass]

CrimsonGuard said:

<<The nazis and the ss where Nordicists! the waffen ss only recruited because they where losing the war>>


Nope not true! Even so it doesnt change the fact the Nazi's where recruiting un-aryan/un-nordic volunteers to serve in their armies and in be apart of their Government,and the fact that these free voluneers where volunteer speak volumes.

Look at the Nazi's allies during WW2 Italy,Spain,Japan,Romania,Hungary,Croatia,Albanian moslems,Palestine and few others.Nothing Nordic about them at all.The Nazi where not Nordists,far from it.

what your really doing is your beleiving in common popular post war misconception and lies.

The ideas of Guenther became somewhat popular after Hitler came to power,in small group of people and a few nazi officials,and they where never officially endorced by the Nazi Party nor by Adolf Hitler or used.

The only one to really toy with the idea was Himmler,but his racial ideas where a complete failure.

Only at the very early stages when the SS where Hitler's small bodyguard unit ,where the SS recruits selected for their extremly strict height and racial makeup(Blue yes and Blond Hair. And they had to trace their german ancestry back a 100 year or more.But recruitment was extremly low,and later Hitler ordered himmler to disregard the process.

here's link and excerpt:

www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n5p34_Weber.html



<Hitler never supported notions of breeding a homogenous blond "hyper-Aryan" race. Accepting the reality that the German population consisted of several distinct sub-racial groups, he stressed the German people's national and social unity. A certain degree of racial variety was desirable, he thought, and too much racial blending or homogeneity could be harmful because it would homogenize and thus eliminate superior as well as inferior genetic traits.

Hitler believed that "both conservative prudery and radical eroticism" harmed society, and he opposed birth control because it tended to lower the genetic quality of the society that practices it.>

Hitler never once used the term Nordic in any of his speaches or writings ,he used the term "Aryan".

I studied Hitler and Nazi's for long time,and i can tell you,these wannabe-neo-Nazi's are nothing more than corrupted version using the Nazi image and corrupting it with their own agenda.

Today you have pagan-NeoNazi's who see themeselves as the superior anti-Christian/ anti Jew haters.Meanwhile Hitler was a Roman Catholic and at one time thought of becoming a monk.When in Power he merged State and Church,he was very much anti-pagan and very much Pro-Catholic.

Neo-Nazi Nordic type who are another group of crackpots who are not nor do not understand what true nazi where about or National Socialism/Fascism.




Most if not all the German nazi's and aswel as German people where obviously unNordic in characteristics as mentioned.

If you also read Mein Kampf Hitler believed strongly in the Union of Germany,Italy and Britain and saw these 3 countries as the most powerful European countries trhoughout history ,and that they should be united in union .

Also in one of Hitler's speaches in prasied the Greek hellenistic Spirit and spoke very highly of the greeks during their defence of their country.So he did respect them.Their was never any hint of nordic supreamacy about Hitler or the Nazi regime.

OK first off you provided a link to ihr! seriously ihr? are you one of those people that believes on the z.o.g? if you want to make a strong point try using sources not affiliated witht he extreme.

"Nope not true! Even so it doesnt change the fact the Nazi's where recruiting un-aryan/un-nordic volunteers to serve in their armies and in be apart of their Government,and the fact that these free voluneers where volunteer speak volumes."

Fact is They used these volunteers because hitler was losing the war in the east!Hitler had half jews in the ss are you going to tell me that Nazi Germany was not anti-semitic?lol

"Look at the Nazi's allies during WW2 Italy,Spain,Japan,Romania,Hungary,Croatia,Albanian moslems,Palestine and few others.Nothing Nordic about them at all.The Nazi where not Nordists,far from it."

The core belief of the Party was german! and yes blonde blue eyes!=nordicists!are you going to tell me they saw all those countrys as equals to the german IDEAL?Who are you trying to joke?

"what your really doing is your beleiving in common popular post war misconception and lies."

Have you watched the history channel? Have you wachted the interviews with the ss soldiers?maybe you think the history channel is runn by little jewish elfs trying to mislead people?

"The ideas of Guenther became somewhat popular after Hitler came to power,in small group of people and a few nazi officials,and they where never officially endorced by the Nazi Party nor by Adolf Hitler or used."
www.arts.usyd.edu.au/departs/medieval/saga/pdf/316-mees.pdf

"The only one to really toy with the idea was Himmler,but his racial ideas where a complete failure."

Are you joking? i have to ask you,are you a nazi sympathizer?I have to ask because im suspecting it.

"Only at the very early stages when the SS where Hitler's small bodyguard unit ,where the SS recruits selected for their extremly strict height and racial makeup(Blue yes and Blond Hair. And they had to trace their german ancestry back a 100 year or more.But recruitment was extremly low,and later Hitler ordered himmler to disregard the process."

Later when they where losing the war!

"Also in one of Hitler's speaches in prasied the Greek hellenistic Spirit and spoke very highly of the greeks during their defence of their country.So he did respect them.Their was never any hint of nordic supreamacy about Hitler or the Nazi regime. "
You cant be serious?read Dr. A. James Gregor and also about Italy what the nazis thought about southern Italy.

[SwordandCompass]

CrimsonGuard,since you said you where Sicilian have a look here and click on the link with this link.Read about what the nazi "elites" thought about your people and your country.
dodona.proboards35.com/index.cgi?board=newslinks&action=display&thread=1076203341

[Crimson Guard]

You dont get it!

The Nazi's where racialist not Nordist.The Nazi's and their policies where also very complex and is state of change throughout their 12 years.

Some members of the Nazi party held nordists idealism such as the crackpot Himmler(who many SS soldiers despised),that is true as i said before.But this was in a low minority and later became terminated.

Both Germany and Italy have had rivaly that goes back 1000's of years since the time of Romans,so a certain amount can be abtributed to this .(Much like what the British did to Irish-you get the picture)

So as far that Germany vs Italy stuff,i really dont have much to say,other than its unfortunate.Their exist in this world a alot of moronic petty nonsence that divides man instead of unites and strenghtens them,thats why Europe is and has always been in a constant state of Warfare throughout its history,among other things.Europeans been fighting amongst themeselves and creating moronic lies for so long they been begin to believe them.

When the Waffen SS recruited Italians,Himmler at first thought them cowards & inferior fighting men,and they used the red collar instead of the Black.But when they fought off the alies with great valor and ruthlessness at anzio,Himmler recounted and praised their heroism,& gave them the true SS statis with Black collars.

The Italian army during WW2 was in fact inferior,the Germans had to bail them out many times like in North Africa/albania ect.

Hitler greatly admired Mussolini, and Hitler based many of the Nazi motiffs,Symbolism,idealogy and things like that on the Romans and Fascists.

The fact remains the Nazi's recruited forigners.It doesnt change the fact whether if they where winning or losing the war.

Hitler was a Roman Catholic,and had close ties to the vatican.Most of Germany is Roman Catholic or Protestant,still all christians.

You also seem to forget that many many many Ethnic German's did not fall under the Nordic Sphere,and many Germans felt they where being opressed cause of the racial quaota that was gainign popualrity and dividing the nation into classes.(Besides that not all Germans liked Blond haired men/women,they liked diversity).

Once Hitler became aware of what was going he put an end to it,and the people responcible where reassigned to other places.

Mein Kampf was written in the early 1920's,Hitler held no anti-Italian crap,as i covered his area.

You can say the Nazi racial practices evolved as the war progressed,but they where never exclussively Nordicists,for if you do its wrong,its a fallacy.

Their are many excellent nonbiased books about the SS and Nazi's out their.

of course in the end you'll beleive what you'll like,as will I,that is the way of things.

So please read this it may be inlighting.



www.patriot.dk/aryan1.html

yet another excellent link all of which is 100% factual:

[Crimson Guard]

<<OK first off you provided a link to ihr! seriously ihr? are you one of those people that believes on the z.o.g? if you want to make a strong point try using sources not affiliated witht he extreme.>>

Come on let not get silly here,just because it destroyed your point,doesnt make it irrelevent.Nor should it be brushed aside!

And please dont use any form of Ad hominem on me.

BTW... The man is Professor who teaches in a coledge with a degree,He is a Historian, and I think he was jewish.

Sides even though he's dead now,he as far i know was never discredited.

So their is no reason to doubt this man and his book,he's was very truthful,factual and unbiased.

On top of that it goes with what i read about Nazi Germany and WW2 from other sources that have nothing to do with this IHR thing.

[SwordandCompass]

I cant believe im discussing this.But why not im bored!

"The Nazi's where racialist not Nordist.The Nazi's and their policies where also very complex and is state of change throughout their 12 years."

The core belief of N/S was the nordic IDEAL.Its funny you dont refute this but twist it around and say Because of the recruitment of ss volunteers its proof that nazism racial theorys change with time?? how ridiculous is that? even the link you provided has a BLACK SS man.Does that mean Hitler/nazis believed BLACKs WHERE EQUAL?

from your link you provided:

"The conclusion is therefore that the campaign against the Soviet Union was first and foremost an ideological crusade against communism."


" Some members of the Nazi party held nordists idealism such as the crackpot Himmler(who many SS soldiers despised),that is true as i said before.But this was in a low minority and later became terminated."

Himmler was a crackpot,BUT HIS MEN DID NOT THINK SO!His men would of followed him and his orders without question and they did.They admired him!Dont make up stuff to convince yourself!ss men did not despise it!.What was in low minority WAS THAT MANY GERMAN soldiers did not fit the qualifications!!!It was later terminated BECAUSE OF THE eastern front !!!!!!! its that simple.They needed men, so what happend is Hitler ordered Himmler not to be so strict! On the History Channel they interviewed former ss men and they talked about this very thing about the recruitment of foreigners in the ss and you know what they said?The hated it!They did not think of the others as equals!

"Both Germany and Italy have had rivaly that goes back 1000's of years since the time of Romans,so a certain amount can be abtributed to this .(Much like what the British did to Irish-you get the picture)"

But this does not despute the fact that germanys nazi theorys of race.especially concerning ITALY! !
dodona.proboards35.com/index.cgi?board=newslinks&action=display&thread=1076203341

"So as far that Germany vs Italy stuff,i really dont have much to say,other than its unfortunate.Their exist in this world a alot of moronic petty nonsence that divides man instead of unites and strenghtens them,thats why Europe is and has always been in a constant state of Warfare throughout its history,among other things.Europeans been fighting amongst themeselves and creating moronic lies for so long they been begin to believe them."

No this is about ambition, egos, greed and POWER!If you think for a second that nazism equals "europeanism" you are really blind.Europeans have been fighting amongst themselves and other nations and people not just themselvs! because of Power and lust of Power,end of story.If you are an Italian Patriot your concerns should BE ITALY AND ITALY ONLY!persevering its people and traditions.Take pride in your people and anceint embles not german ones or nazi ones! arghhh:P

"When the Waffen SS recruited Italians,Himmler at first thought them cowards & inferior fighting men,and they used the red collar instead of the Black.But when they fought off the alies with great valor and ruthlessness at anzio,Himmler recounted and praised their heroism,& gave them the true SS statis with Black collars."

Yes i know.Same with the iberians, the spanish and the portguese who fought with blue division.But these men fought for,because of there country and against communism NOT FOR GERMANY.I say this because if germans invaded the iberians you can surely bet they would put up a fight.They would not bend over and let the germans stick it up the ass so easly.(btw i heard two storys that hilter did have plans to invaded and from what i heard there was two names? operation gold finger? and or operation felix? any truth to this?)

"Hitler was a Roman Catholic,and had close ties to the vatican.Most of Germany is Roman Catholic or Protestant,still all christians. "

Hilter and many top officials where catholic yes,but they where nonpracticing catholics,thats the rub!!!!! All of the ss troops practiced oddcult pre christian rites! Those who practiced catholism and believed strongly where not happy www.kurt-gerstein.de/ there is also another german officer who was shot because he was a strong catholic!
Dont use the church to make your point because the church was deathly scared of what might happend to them if they openly apposed Hitler and his thugs.Also the nazis new that the german public would oppose "nazism" if they where against the peoples religion.

"Hitler greatly admired Mussolini, and Hitler based many of the Nazi motiffs,Symbolism,idealogy and things like that on the Romans and Fascists."
Did you even read the links i posted?
www.arts.usyd.edu.au/departs/medieval/saga/pdf/316-mees.pdf
Yes i know he did. but this does not mean anything,
dodona.proboards35.com/index.cgi?board=newslinks&action=display&thread=1076203341
please read the article! mussolini hated hilter.Every picture you see of him with hitler is called propaganda!Mussolini like Hilter only saw how they could USE one another!

"Mussolini turned to the man he had considered a "silly little monkey" when they had first met. Hitler and Nazi Germany.
www.historylearningsite.co.uk/aby1.htm
www.dickinson.edu/~history/dictators/mussolini_war.htm

"The fact remains the Nazi's recruited forigners.It doesnt change the fact whether if they where winning or losing the war."

Fact is they recruited BECAUSE of man power!Again Hilter had jewish men and black men( thanks for the link ha)!!!!

"You also seem to forget that many many many Ethnic German's did not fall under the Nordic Sphere,and many Germans felt they where being opressed cause of the racial quaota that was gainign popualrity and dividing the nation into classes.(Besides that not all Germans liked Blond haired men/women,they liked diversity)."

No you are twisting everything around! First,Yes i know that not every german was blonde blued eyed BUT THEY WHERE "GERMANIC" The ss theorys of race was the IDEAL!!!!Germans did not feel "oppressed"! are you joking?The ss IDEAL did not included many yes but they where IDEAL "aryans" hence requirements and the label "special guard".

"Mein Kampf was written in the early 1920's,Hitler held no anti-Italian crap,as i covered his area."

Hilters book didnt go into detail.But obviously it did later on!
dodona.proboards35.com/index.cgi?board=newslinks&action=display&thread=1076203341

"You can say the Nazi racial practices evolved as the war progressed,but they where never exclussively Nordicists,for if you do its wrong,its a fallacy."

Let me ask you what was the ideal german?Nazism was about Germanicism!

"Their are many excellent nonbiased books about the SS and Nazi's out their.

of course in the end you'll beleive what you'll like,as will I,that is the way of things.

So please read this it may be inlighting. www.patriot.dk/aryan1.html"
LOL (sorry i dont mean to laugh but what more can i say?


Btw That link does not go into specifics why the germans recruited!

[SwordandCompass]

"Come on let not get silly here,just because it destroyed your point,doesnt make it irrelevent.Nor should it be brushed aside!"

You havent destoryed my point!Here what they thought of siclians
dodona.proboards35.com/index.cgi?board=newslinks&action=display&thread=1076203341
Im not getting silly im asking you as question do you believe jews are in control and trying to rule the world?

" And please dont use any form of Ad hominem on me."
I didnt call you any names.im just assuming only because you provided that link.So i ask you again are you a nazi sympthizer?

"BTW... The man is Professor who teaches in a coledge with a degree,He is a Historian, and I think he was jewish."
Did you read the article? it HAS NOTHING do to with what you trying to prove!

[Crimson Guard]

<<Let me ask you what was the ideal german?Nazism was about Germanicism>>

Ok,before nazism to you was about Nordicism,now you change it to the more broad Germanicism,haha ok get your story straight which is it?LOL! BTW... they are not the same thing!

.

<<I didnt call you any names.im just assuming only because you provided that link.So i ask you again are you a nazi sympthizer?>>

<<Im not getting silly im asking you as question do you believe jews are in control and trying to rule the world?>>

theirs an old saying about people who assume,But i'll leave you to look it up!

**On the same note let me ask you something:Iis anyone who doenst agree with you a Nazi or Nordicist?

Ad Hominems are not only about name calling.These questions of your have nothing to do with the topic,its not the point and its totally irrelvent my personal beliefs.You seem to want argue against me rather than my case.

From my link :

"originally was a certain race criterion for admission to the SS introduced by Himmler when the SS only was parade soldiers and guard for national socialist leadership. After pressure from Hitler this criterion was abolished in 1938, and it was never applied to foreigners. "

"One ought to add that Nazi-Germany in 1937 introduced the foreign worker (Gastarbeiter) system. The first foreign workers were Italians. Later followed other nationalities, among other Danes".

You obviously dont read and just look at the pictures,and you are using rethorical devices on me since your entire arguement was destroyed.




LOL You Still have not proved the Nazi's where nordicists,but its amazing that you keep saying and Twisting things around once I prove you to be full of it.Whats even more funny is how you are saying I'am doing it to you,thats hilarious but yet sad!


Read the links they are self explanatory and they do prove one thing ,"That the Nazi's where not Nordicist"!

That Arabian must be Nordic,your right,wait he could be German,and so must those Chinese!

have you ever bothered to read this one:

www.geocities.com/dienekesp/natsoc.html

Oh heres a little something from it:

<The first clear statement on official reorientation had come from Hitler himself only seven months after he came to power, at the 1993 Nuremberg Parteitag. Hitler said: "We do not conclude from a man's physical type his ability, but rather from his achievements his race." (94) Thus achievements, not physical type, were to be the measure of worth.>>

I rest my case,this discussion is over!For all I care you can go on beleiveing your rubbish!

[geirr]

Relax SwordandCompass, CrimsonGuard is simply saying that Nordicism was a niche view within the Nazi party that was ultimately unworkable because few Germans fit that ideal. The real Nazis were infact racialists who divided Germans according to specific subraces- Nordic, Faelish, Dinaric, Mediterranean and mixes of. If Nazis only allowed Nordics in their party it would have been a fairly lonely group, just look at the senior hierarchy.

[SwordandCompass]

"Ok,before nazism to you was about Nordicism,now you change it to the more broad Germanicism,haha ok get your story straight which is it?LOL! BTW... they are not the same thing!"

Fact germanicism and nordicism was intertwined.Later when it was obvious germany it self did not fit this IDEAL things began to change!But the founding core of "nazism" is Nordicism.They are not the same thing like you say because it was clear that germany did not fit "nordicism" theory.This is why you see this messageboard up! this is why you see people refuting Kemp! you get it? to be a good nazi meant TO BE A GOOD GERMAN.And what we are talking about in this thread is about the SS!

"heirs an old saying about people who assume,But i'll leave you to look it up!"
You are right but i go with my gut feeling.And i like when people when they are up front.This is a messageboard so i dont know other than what you type.


"*On the same note let me ask you something:Iis anyone who doenst agree with you a Nazi or Nordicist?"
NO they are not.But you havent answered the question either.

"Ad Hominems are not only about name calling.These questions of your have nothing to do with the topic,its not the point and its totally irrelvent my personal beliefs.You seem to want argue against me rather than my case."

It certainly does have to do with the topic.Your personal beliefs might be baised! i dont want to argue against you.If you are a nazi sympathizer i dont care.But for you to tell me nazism is not related to nordicism or rather what this topic is about SS WAS NOT FOUNDED ON NORDICISM is a laugh.

""originally was a certain race criterion for admission to the SS introduced by Himmler when the SS only was parade soldiers and guard for national socialist leadership. After pressure from Hitler this criterion was abolished in 1938, and it was never applied to foreigners. "

Like i said it was a move because of man power.If hitler openly declared anyone other than german people not worthy who would of fought along side him?Its clear that THE BEGING OF N/S ITS CORE WAS NORDICISM.After looking through your webpage you offered its another "revisionist"The thing with this is I DONT DEVOTE MY TIME ON STUDYS TO WW2 AND NAZI GERMANY!

"You obviously dont read and just look at the pictures,and you are using rethorical devices on me since your entire arguement was destroyed."


"Whereas the Office of Racial Politics, under the ultimate supervision of Rudolf Hess, was moving in a more biological and scientific direction, according to Landra, Himmler's operation was drifting in the opposite direction, toward racial spiritualism. Himmler informed Landra that the S.S. no longer laid as much stress on choosing men of a particular anthropological type, but now selected them increasingly for their spiritual attributes. "Now it depends not so much on the color of their hair or a given cephalic index," Landra explained, "but rather if they have the psychological quality belonging to the ideal and heroic model of the German race." "


"The Italians were also upset over continued German allegations that "Negro blood" was present in the southern and central Italians."

muweb.millersville.edu/~holo-con/gillette.html