Zoroastrianism in Judaism, Christianity & Islam

[Aria88]

I strongly agree with modern, objective scholars of comparative religion, in that the creeds of Judaism, Christianity and Islam were greatly influenced by ancient Zoroastrianism. I don't often quote directly from authors, but I'll begin this thread by doing so:

"The Jews owed the rebuilding of Jerusalem, the Temple and their religious life to the Achaemenids' tolerant policies. Continuing Persian royal patronage of a restored and theocratic Israel undoubtedly made them more accessible to Iranian religious influences: besides the apparent impact of Iranian law on Judaism, Jewish religious thought did not remain unstirred by the unravelling of new religious syntheses in the Achaemenid empire. During the ordeals of the Babylonian exile, Jewish religion had been exposed to new and alien systems of belief. During the Second Temple era it came close into contact with Iranian religious traditions and underwent a series of significant transformations. Some of the newly developed Jewish concepts and beliefs of the period betray strong affinities with Babylonian and Zoroastrian traditions and have repeatedly been attributed to direct Mesopotamian and Iranian influences on exilic and post-exilic Judaism...

The seminal encounter between the Iranian and Jewish religious worlds certainly left its imprint on the evolution of post-exilic Jewish messianism and eschatology and on the rise of Jewish apocalypticism. Similarly, some important developments in the angelology and demonology of post-exilic Judaism, which elaborated and classified the parallel orders and functions of the warring angelic and demonic hosts, have been generally accepted as reflecting Babylonian and Zoroastrian influences. Moreover, it was in the Second Temple era that angels came to acquire names and individuality in contrast to the impersonal and anonymous angelic figures in pre-exilic Judaism."

Stoyanov, The Other God, pp. 54-55

This opinion is no aberration. Except among chauvinistic, biased scholars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, it is the accepted viewpoint. In further posts I can list the parallels between Zoroastrianism -- or if you like, Mazdaism -- and Christianity, in particular. Nascent Christianity absorbed many ideas from Zoroastrianism via Judaism, and also directly from Z~ itself.

[Aria88]

I realize I am fishing in the dark by posing this question: it has been said by orthodox Sunnis that Shia Islam is covert Zoroastrianism. That sounds possible, as it has been dominant in Iran for centuries, and one might expect Zardushti traditions to be absorbed by the national religion, much the same way that Paganism was kept alive within the Roman Catholic church. Can anyone well-versed in Islam -- both Sunni and Shia -- educate me in the specifics behind this allegation. And one would appreciate some objectivity, neither glorification nor denigration of Islam in general.

[Igu]

I don't know if I'm answering the question... you need to know how shia appeared?

After the death of mohamed, there was a competition of who will succeed mohamed, abou bakr won it thanks to his tribe (ali protested).

after the death of the second successor uthman, Ali became Khalif but Aicha wife of mohamed and daughter of abu bakr didn't accept his khalifa and a war begun between them.

...some of the shia (ali miltants) say that the koran has been falsified by sunnis so that it'll hide what was quoted in koran: ali must succeed mohamed.

Anyway, the shia/sunni problem was mainly an arab/arab problem than anything else, but the peoples that accepted to be islamised did it with a great feeling of frustration, so they prefered the shism than the orthodox version. I can give you another example, different but similar to the iranian one: the berbers, just after becoming sunni, berbers rejected it and converted to another shism : the Kharidjism (a sort of "I don't care about shia and sunna)...etc.

Iranians didn't adapt Islam to zoroastrism, they have adopted shia just to differanciate themselves from the others, whether it was closer or farer from zoroastrism : they didn't care.

[Aria88]

Thanks, Igu. My question is, however, how much Zoroastrianism can one find in Shia Islam. I am aware that some Sunnis have claimed that Shia is an Iranian/Zardushti adaptation of Islam. In other words, I reiterate, much as old European paganism made its way into Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, the ancient Persian religion heavily influenced Shia Islam. I know a hell of a lot more about Zoroastrianism than I do Islam, so maybe I should ask Cyrus this question.

[Cyrus]

Mehrdad Mehrin writes in his famous book Tamadon-e Iran bastan (Civilization of ancient Iran): "Islam for Iran was very insignificant and faulty, there were many things in Islam that were impossible for Iranians to accept them especially the rudeness and savageness of Arabs which could be seen easily in their religion, Iranian adopted this religion but they changed it by their own religion and culture and made a new religion which was more conformable to their beliefs. ... Islam has two types, Iranian Islam and Arabic Islam, Iranian Islam is the same Zoroastrianism which has worn mourning for its past glorious days which have been lost.

[Aria88]

Mamnoon, Korush. Do you think Ashura has a Zardushti connection? My theory is that it has something to do with the mourning for Siyavaush. Does "Siya-" have the same etymology as "siyah" -- black?

I've been considering ordering, from Abebooks, Spiritual Body and Celestial Earth: from Mazdean Iran to Shi'ite Iran, by Henry Corbin. Hopefully it won't be a waste of money.

I also have an interest in the Zoroastrian and Zurvanite origin of Catharism and Bogomilism.

[pconroy]

Aria88 said:

Mamnoon, Korush. Do you think Ashura has a Zardushti connection? My theory is that it has something to do with the mourning for Siyavaush. Does "Siya-" have the same etymology as "siyah" -- black?

I've been considering ordering, from Abebooks, Spiritual Body and Celestial Earth: from Mazdean Iran to Shi'ite Iran, by Henry Corbin. Hopefully it won't be a waste of money.

I also have an interest in the Zoroastrian and Zurvanite origin of Catharism and Bogomilism.

I have been fascinated with the Cathars for over a decade, ever since I read a book - I think it was "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" - in which it stated that the origins of the Cathar faith were to be found in the Middle East. It also said that the Cathar escapees made their way to Scotland and laid the future foundation of the Freemasons - another group I'm very interested in.

I am currently half way through a book - "In Search of Zarathustra - Across Iran and Central Asia to Find the World's First Prophet" by Paul Kriwaczek - which is a great introduction to Zoroastrianism and Manichaeism. In later chapters it will deal with the Cathars and the Bogomils, haven't got there yet...

Let me know of any good books on this you have read, OK!

Or on their links to Gnosticism.

[vela]

For a long time I’ve had the notion that the influence of Zoroastrianism on Judaism and Christianity was a widely accepted fact. The influence on Islam is not so clearly defined, at least not directly.

Zoroastrianism is considered by some as the first monotheistic religion. Its influence on the three major religions is qualitative rather than quantitative.

First, it made contributions to Judaism, for between 538 B.C. (when the Persians under Cyrus captured Babylonia and set free the Jews exiled in that land) and 330 B.C. (when the Persian Empire was destroyed by Alexander) the Jews were directly under the suzerainty of the Zoroastrians. And it was from the suzerains that the Jews first learnt to believe in an Ahriman, a personal devil, whom they called in Hebrew, Satan. Possibly from them, too, the Jews first learnt to believe in a heaven and hell, and in a judgment Day for each individual (Lewis Browne, This Believing World, New York: MacMillan Company, 1926, pp. 216, 217).

One of the fundamental contacts with Christianity is found in the story of the “Three Magi” at the nativity of Jesus, who are believed to be of Persian origin and Zoroastrian priests. See the link below:

www.pyracantha.com/Z/3magi.html

There’s also the controversial rumors about the travels of Jesus in his youth to Egypt, Persia, Kashmir and India, etc., where he explored and studied the knowledge and religions of his time.

[Igu]

Aria88 said:

Thanks, Igu. My question is, however, how much Zoroastrianism can one find in Shia Islam. I am aware that some Sunnis have claimed that Shia is an Iranian/Zardushti adaptation of Islam. In other words, I reiterate, much as old European paganism made its way into Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, the ancient Persian religion heavily influenced Shia Islam. I know a hell of a lot more about Zoroastrianism than I do Islam, so maybe I should ask Cyrus this question.

If you read french :
perso.wanadoo.fr/aria7000/secrets0.html

a whole book -on line- about the influence of Mazdeism on islam. Not very objective though... but interesting.

[vela]

pconroy said:

Let me know of any good books on this you have read, OK!

Or on their links to Gnosticism.

So I hear you like to read ....

Check the following link, do a search for your topic of interest and read to your heart's content

www.sacred-texts.com/index.htm