Refuting Alex Pappamikal about Islam

[Graeme]

Kaffir in English means the same thing: the name given to the Bantus of South Africa. Also Kafir is a Kafiri.

[alex221166]

Igu said:

that word was brought to south africa by portuguese to call bantu people, it's origin is arabic (kafer), it means Unbeliever.

but maybe we are not speaking about the same word!

No, we are speaking about the same word. Originally the word meant "infidel", but nowadays the most common meaning of the word is "scoundrel". Undoubtedly the name came from the lovely feelings between Christians and heathens.

[rusalka]

Born and -mostly- raised in a country which is pretty much de-Islamized but still has a Muslim population, I can say this very clearly that the really religious and fanatically Islamic people have always been and still are a nuisance to all the others. They protest for anything -as if they would allow the others to have ANY rights if they were in power- they abuse people calling them infidels and amoral for anything they don't approve of, have the weirdest customs that have been originated in an Arabian desert more than a thousand years ago and frankly, probably have the worst taste in clothing, art and architecture. It shouldn't come as a surprise either, that part of the world where Islam flourished isn't exactly known for its high culture; the Islam that had its Renaissance was linked with -and was in- Europe. Today there is no Andalusian Omayyad dynasty to synthesize Greek, Indian, Chinese and European culture, technology and to an extent art. Today, Islam is -once again- a very much Arabic religion and an Arabic cultural phenomenon. Even the usage of Arabic and accepting it as a "Holy Language" proves it. I don't think there could -or should- ever be a European Islam. Islam today is very much political as a movement and its whole Muslims in name because they were born so and are just observing some of the traditions while still leading a normal, secular life, I have no problems with but whomever identifies themselves with Islam first and foremost and puts it before any other of their roles would in one way or another have problems with the Western Culture. It's an oxymoron.

[xxx]

Graeme said:

There is a mosque in Malta and it is an absolute eyesore. Can't believe your lot built the Alhambra.

Graeme, if by 'his lot' you refer to Arabs, let me point to you that the Andalusí people were well differenced by race and even culture from other Moslems, included Arabs or North Africans.

If you refered to Moslems, the above said should be noticed here too. Being different both in race and culture, their practising of Islam was different too. A liberal styled Islam which modern Islamites cannot even dream of. That is why the North African religious extremist Almohads came into the peninsula, to force a stricter view of Islam.

So no, 'his lot' has little to nothing to do with the Peninsula.


To this point, I should bring to everyone's attention the diatribes of one Spaniard converted to Islam who used to post in a forum for discussion of prehistory and protohistory of the Iberian Peninsula, the now extint celtiberia.net.

His attempts to propheticize an Andalusian islamic nation through historical articles (completely out of place on a board for pre- and proto-history), was met with rage by the annoyed forum members with any attempt. On the racial issue, he did concede though that Andalusis were racially different, he never claimed they were 'racial Moors'.

Try to count how many marvels like the Alhambra and Generalife have been built in Northern Africa or the Arabian Peninsula.

[xxx]

Mynydd said:

Try to count how many marvels like the Alhambra and Generalife have been built in Northern Africa or the Arabian Peninsula.

Roughly a many as Classical and Renaissance marvels in the Nordic reservoirs of Scandinavia. I.e. zero. ;D

[nobody you know]

Islam, in it's proper form, is an all right religion. the only problem is that what is called islam today isn't actually what it was a thousand years ago, it just uses its symbols.

There are plenty of Muslims who stand in defence of western culture, we just never hear about them because they are silenced by the media (and are scared of the consequences of speaking out).

www.amislam.com
www.muslim-refusenik.com

[Graeme]

I don't agree with you, friend. Muslims in Australia are very vocal. They whine, whinge and complain about anything that they want changed in their favour. And they are not exactly shy about using public housing, public medical facilities, public education, public dental services.....just about everything that they don't pay for. They are users par excellence. Silenced by the media, eh. I wish that were true as I am sick of hearing their ignorant, barbaric and stupid opinions on the media. Scared, eh. Scared of their own co-religionists exacting payback. There is nothing in Islam that hasn't been stolen from some other religion or doesn't belong to some savage and ignorant age. Nothing. And I hope to live long enough to see every muslim deported out of this country.

[alex221166]

nobody said:

Islam, in it's proper form, is an all right religion. the only problem is that what is called islam today isn't actually what it was a thousand years ago, it just uses its symbols.

There are plenty of Muslims who stand in defence of western culture, we just never hear about them because they are silenced by the media (and are scared of the consequences of speaking out).

www.amislam.com
www.muslim-refusenik.com

Nonsense. Mohammed himself slit the throats of the infidels and raped their wives. He was also a paedophile and a sadist who gouged people's eyes and chopped off their hands and feet before killing them.

The difference is that the regular dark ages man wasn't any less barbaric. The imagery of Muslim "tolerance" is nonsense. A modern invention. Christians and Jews living in Muslim territory had to pay a huge religious tax, and risked seeing their property stolen at all times.

And yes, Jews and Muslims too had a hard time in Christian land. The difference is that we do not hide the shame in our history or the intolerance of our ancestors.

What is happening today in Sudan (ethnic cleansing) is exactly what happened in North Africa 1300 years ago. Make the life for the "kaffirs" as hard as possible to force them to convert, and if that doesn't work just kill the males, steal their land and rape their women.

As Mynydd already said in numerous posts, right after the Islamic conquest of the Peninsula, there were several rebellions (most were crushed and drenched in Iberian blood). If Islam was so great tolerant and peaceful, why start a rebellion? The reason why Al-Andaluz was actually great (culturally speaking) was because of the Romanized natives - not because of the Muslim occupiers.

[Melnorme]

alex said:

Nonsense. Mohammed himself slit the throats of the infidels and raped their wives. He was also a paedophile and a sadist who gouged people's eyes and chopped off their hands and feet before killing them.

The difference is that the regular dark ages man wasn't any less barbaric. The imagery of Muslim "tolerance" is nonsense. A modern invention. Christians and Jews living in Muslim territory had to pay a huge religious tax, and risked seeing their property stolen at all times.

And yes, Jews and Muslims too had a hard time in Christian land. The difference is that we do not hide the shame in our history or the intolerance of our ancestors.

What is happening today in Sudan (ethnic cleansing) is exactly what happened in North Africa 1300 years ago. Make the life for the "kaffirs" as hard as possible to force them to convert, and if that doesn't work just kill the males, steal their land and rape their women.

As Mynydd already said in numerous posts, right after the Islamic conquest of the Peninsula, there were several rebellions (most were crushed and drenched in Iberian blood). If Islam was so great tolerant and peaceful, why start a rebellion? The reason why Al-Andaluz was actually great (culturally speaking) was because of the Romanized natives - not because of the Muslim occupiers.

Actually, a big reason for 'Islamic tolerance' is that the Muslims simply had to be tolerant, since they initially ruled over very large minorities ( or even majorities ) of non-Muslims, who were gradually Islamized over numerous centuries.

[nobody you know]

Graeme said:

I don't agree with you, friend. Muslims in Australia are very vocal. They whine, whinge and complain about anything that they want changed in their favour. And they are not exactly shy about using public housing, public medical facilities, public education, public dental services.....just about everything that they don't pay for. They are users par excellence. Silenced by the media, eh. I wish that were true as I am sick of hearing their ignorant, barbaric and stupid opinions on the media. Scared, eh. Scared of their own co-religionists exacting payback. There is nothing in Islam that hasn't been stolen from some other religion or doesn't belong to some savage and ignorant age. Nothing. And I hope to live long enough to see every muslim deported out of this country.

they're like that here too.

Nevertheless there are good muslims and just because many or even most of them are like this it doens't mean they all are.